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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:22 PM

The food Nazi's in New york just pissed me off..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/new-york-approves-soda-ban-big-sugary-drinks_n_1880868.html


If it were That easy...to lose weight as in that commonly believed but incredibly ignorant calories in/out model we'd all be thin.If Soda was the culprit of the obesity problem..

People who think the calorie in and out model works all the time like some math equation,they have no idea the complexities of changing a body metabolism. A lot of fat people eat LESS than thin people do. Diets FAIL,at a 98% rate. There are MANY factors at work causing obesity ,pollutants,viruses,abuse...the list of possible causitive factors is long.
Why can people who drink super big gulps often seem to not gain weight from it?


If diets worked there wouldn't be so many of them being promoted like a magic health solutions.If dieting actually worked and nobody would be fat.Nobody would regain it after using the regimen for months or years.

Yet the fat phobes still continue giving unwanted sanctimonious advice to the overweight as if they KNOW why fat people get fat,is is fucking rude.
Our narcissistic, vain, body/status obsessed and superficial society piles on that all pervasive pressure to conform,suffer to be beautiful,reduce calorie intake exercise more and more and become become food obsessed,until you are scared to eat things, scared to miss the gym because of the burning soul killing humiliation that fat people face,daily. Social pressures,fat bigotry, ignorance that some people have about fat people is abusive and toxic to well being,self acceptance and growing into as a culture, the accepting of body differences in a diverse world.


Fat Bigots are as toxic as racism,homophobia or any other bigotry. But right now browbeating the "fatties" is a hateful bigotry our society now accepts.
It even legislates against food they imagine fat people eat. Soda..what next chips,butter, what will be the next"evil"food to fear?What excuse to control,blame fat people,than no one will have freedom to eat as free people anymore. The saddest thing is this kind of nanny tactic was promoted by the Nazis. Nazis idolized the fit Aryan body, the ancient Greek model of physical perfection. The vain feared fat in the Reich to the point whipped cream was seen as the devil itself. The Nazi's restricted what the people ate 'for their own good' in Nazi Germany. Nazis believed your own body was not really yours.It belonged to the state. Do you wish to be owned and belong to the state,or the City of New York?
Even if limiting soda intake is healthy do you want the LAW of New York City make you by force limit how much sugary shit you can drink in one cup.?

Right now fat bigot politicians , fat bigot busybodies trying to warn fat people of their horrid 'lifestyle choices',and fat bigoted people can get away with such stupid shit . People have internalized a lot of the Nazi belief system without even realizing it. Doesn't matter if you are on the left or right nowadays,there is idealogical overlap..

Maybe one day people will become more sensitized to others situations and care about others well being without the force of law and trying to dominate or control them. Maybe one day the haters, they won't get away with it anymore because society won't tolerate bigots bullshit no matter whom is targeted..Maybe the promotion of the failure called calories in/out will finally be shown to the to be the failure it really is to all these simplistic thinkers and vain and sanctimonious people. Not all overweight people eat tons of junk food drink humongous sodas or fast food all day.

I'm fat,I don't drink sodas,I don't use sugar, Don't eat white rice,or white bread,I do everything in moderation yet my bodies set-point never budges faster for me.
If I diet and I yo yo so I end up fatter,than BEFORE the diet because my bodies set-point drops even further lower.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/15/health-yo-yo-dieting-does-not-affect-weight-loss_n_1778118.html

I learned this by DIETING.A.K.A calorie reduction 1,200 calories to be exact, and I passed out in the weight watchers meeting..I wasn't getting enough food.The starvation study I linked to below had people eating 1,500 calories..

So I gave up on calorie in calorie out dieting,and I haven't gotten any fatter.But the damage is done.

This soda legislation in New York is Fat Bigotry motivated by that same bigoted assumption that fat people use more resources than other people do.I see A LOT of thin people drinking super big gulps nobody looks with disgust at them chugging all that sugar..And over time they sometimes don't gain weight. Did the Lucky sperm club give some people superior metabolic rate? Blessed with a fast metabolism that uses the calories you eat so you don't have weight issues? Lucky fucky you.. BTW don't tell me how to feed myself.I eat healthier than most thin people do even on my cheesy budget. and I HATE Nazi's so I am aware of their tactics and belief systems.

Read this it's the Minnesota starvation study.
A lot of people have been burned by calorie reduction and the yo yo shit..
This may be why we have ENTIRE channels on TV just on One topic,all about FOOD.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/6/1347.full

And look at the media,and everyone is thin,look how fat people are scorned or made the butt of a joke.As if being fat was worse than being a mean abusive asshole.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-175210/Six-year-old-tried-slim-knife.html

http://www.boston.com/community/moms/blogs/child_caring/2010/04/_normal_0_false_12.html

Nazi connection to food regulation...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1347695

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Reply The food Nazi's in New york just pissed me off.. (Original post)
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 OP
laundry_queen Sep 2012 #1
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #4
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #2
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #40
SilveryMoon Sep 2012 #3
xmas74 Sep 2012 #7
SilveryMoon Sep 2012 #14
xmas74 Sep 2012 #18
SilveryMoon Sep 2012 #25
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #16
xmas74 Sep 2012 #21
snooper2 Sep 2012 #59
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #9
Marrah_G Sep 2012 #69
KurtNYC Sep 2012 #77
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #5
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #6
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #8
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #10
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #12
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #13
bhikkhu Sep 2012 #22
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #24
Bluenorthwest Sep 2012 #68
redqueen Sep 2012 #74
hollysmom Sep 2012 #11
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #15
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #19
otohara Sep 2012 #17
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #20
otohara Sep 2012 #34
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #38
otohara Sep 2012 #41
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #23
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #26
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #27
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #28
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #29
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #30
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #36
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #43
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #48
JoeyT Sep 2012 #49
PavePusher Sep 2012 #91
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #92
JoeyT Sep 2012 #45
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #47
JoeyT Sep 2012 #50
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #52
JoeyT Sep 2012 #53
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #54
JoeyT Sep 2012 #55
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #56
JoeyT Sep 2012 #57
Odin2005 Sep 2012 #60
NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #79
otohara Sep 2012 #32
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #33
jberryhill Sep 2012 #31
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #35
jberryhill Sep 2012 #37
Mnemosyne Sep 2012 #39
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #42
darkangel218 Sep 2012 #44
Mnemosyne Sep 2012 #58
undergroundpanther Sep 2012 #46
JoeyT Sep 2012 #51
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #61
tama Sep 2012 #81
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #85
tama Sep 2012 #88
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #90
tama Sep 2012 #95
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #96
tama Sep 2012 #101
Odin2005 Sep 2012 #62
nobodyspecial Sep 2012 #72
snooper2 Sep 2012 #63
Enrique Sep 2012 #64
randome Sep 2012 #86
redqueen Sep 2012 #65
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Marrah_G Sep 2012 #67
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Alduin Sep 2012 #84
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Dash87 Sep 2012 #75
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HappyMe Sep 2012 #78
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LanternWaste Sep 2012 #82
Alduin Sep 2012 #83
nobodyspecial Sep 2012 #87
Alduin Sep 2012 #98
frylock Sep 2012 #99
SOS Sep 2012 #100

Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:00 AM

1. In this society

it's definitely more acceptable to be a thin, morally bankrupt asshole than it is to be a fat anything.

In addition to some of the items you list as causitive (check out this "Nature of Things" with David Suzuki episode with regards to toxins and obesity) vitamin deficiency is also related. (Oh, here is the trailer on you tube for those outside Canada - I can't find the whole episode for you guys!



I found out awhile back that I am very deficient in vitamin D and am on high doses to correct this issue. One of the side effects of a vitamin D deficiency? A large and sudden weight gain. Insulin resistance. Lethargy. Since I've started taking high doses (a month ago) I've dropped some weight without doing anything differently than normal. I have energy! In a stupid chicken and egg sort of way - obesity can also cause vit D deficiency (fat cells store it) which perpetuates the problem.

And that's just *1* piece of the puzzle.

There's just so much we don't know. And every time someone turns obesity into a morality exercise, we lose the impetus for research and change.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:19 AM

4. Yeah Vitamin D

I have to take a lot of it too.My endocrinologist is mystified as to why I'm still fat. I have been on psych drugs like Thorazine in high doses,I tried dieting,and it seems my body has plenty of fucked-uppiness I cope with.For instance,I take 3 antidepressants,one is for pain.I have slow thyroid,Thanks to Aberdeen proving ground's output of perchlorate water.
Half the meds I'm on can cause weight gain and I take ten different ones and vitamins.. it's not like I chose to have this weight. It just happened. I am on a med regimen that I'm not a total basket case in hideous pain. there are issues Worse than being fat. Peripheral neuropathy and a messed up spine ,that makes both arms have carpal tunnel and my hands drop things is one of those issues,if Cymbalta hinders my weight loss I don't care I have the pain under control..I still drop stuff.Usually it happens when I have a full glass of water or tea,or doing art or carrying a bowl of beans and brown rice.Aaargh!

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:02 AM

2. I'm coming at this from a completely direction, but I completely agree.

 

Nobody should enact laws that tell us who we are or what they think we should do to "better" ourselves.

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:01 AM

40. everyone

has their own idea of what is better for themselves,and making laws to force others to be better as defined by someone else who has no clue why you do what you do is the thinking of a control freak with too much power.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:16 AM

3. IMO I think it's more accpetable to criticize skinny people than fat people

I've lost count of how many comments I've seen online on how a skinny person should eat something. Or that a skinny person is not a real man or woman. Or that someone who goes to the gym a few times a week must be a narcissistic asshole because he/she spends time on their health. I don't see many people criticizing these comments.

Tell a large person to put down the cheeseburger and you get called a jerk from multiple people. (If you tell someone to put down the cheeseburger you are a jerk)

As for the soda ban, I don't really care one way or another. To me it's similar (not identical but similar) to laws telling people to use a seat belt. There should not be a law to use something as simple as a seat belt. You should just do it. Similarly, there should not be a law limiting or banning how much soda you consume. You should know that large amounts of soda are bad for you.

The fact that we do, to me, is a sad reflection on society.

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Response to SilveryMoon (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:25 AM

7. You see it online

but how often do you see someone make personal, pointed comments towards underweight strangers in public? How often, otoh, do you hear fat jokes made?

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:36 AM

14. Comments about underweight strangers, quite a bit.

I've heard men commenting how women would look better if they eat something. Th most direct and offensive thing I've seen is a man offering buying to a woman a pizza because she look anorexic. I've heard men commenting how other men would look sexy if they weren't so skinny. I've overheard people saying so and so must have an eating disorder.

Same as with large people. I've heard men saying women would look better is she lost weight. I've heard the same thing with men about other men.

I do admit that I've seen more people make loud derogatory remarks towards large people than slender/skinny people.

And I've seen more people criticize those who bash large people than those bash skinny people.

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Response to SilveryMoon (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:47 AM

18. I live in a college town

the more underweight and tan, the happier the college boys are. I've heard college boys actually walk up to average weight young women and tell them to go to the gym and lose some weight. In that same place I've had to watch young overweight women come in to get something to eat and those same young men harass them. No one does anything about it. (No one, that is, until I had to get a manager out there to take care of the situation. At the time I was an employee and I wasn't allowed to do anything about it, though I usually tried to step in and lead the young women away from the group that wouldn't stop.)

When "eat a sandwich" comments are made, it's usually by a group of insecure women. When "fatty" comments are made it's by men and women both. The "fatties" get called out, publicly, and get turned into a big joke.

I've watched too many young overweight women terrorized over their weight when all they wanted was to be left alone-or worse yet, liked. The underweight girls usually sat in groups with people who were a "normal" weight but most of the overweight girls were usually alone with no one to defend them. Is it mean to call out for weight either way? Yes, but I still see it more in those who are overweight.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:59 AM

25. I gotta say, my experiences are somewhat different

Just going around the city by myself, I see just as many guys complaining that skinny/slender women are not "real women" as guys complaining about the "fatty"

I agree that large women get more direct and offensive attacks. And I'll say it again. When a large woman gets picked on, sometimes I see people coming to her aid. In the one example I posted above, no one came to the skinny woman's aid when a guy offered to buy her a pizza because she is skinny. Now you can argue this means skinny women have it better, but under the surface I say it more equal. And unlike the large women, the skinny women has a lower chance of people coming to her defense, in my opinion.

The fact that we have different experiences means we are unlikely to agree on who has it worst. But at least we agree on the fact it is wrong to make comments on a person's weight large or skinny.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:43 AM

16. I agree,XMas74 fat people do get most of the public humiliation...

on TV,by comedians,by family by strangers,by posters on DU...fat people are scapegoated on a scale thin people will never experience.Often the shitty comments directed as skinny people are envy motivated on some level.

No thin person will have to shop at a 'fat store' and not wear the nifty stuff.There are always the cool stuff I like in size 3,2,6,8..

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:51 AM

21. I posted above on this.

When I went through my lay-off, I took a job in a college cafeteria just to get by. When a young woman who was underweight was teased it was by a group of average weight women. When an overweight woman was terrorized (and yes, terrorized is the correct word, from what I saw) it was by underweight and average weight men and women both. While the "eat a sandwich" comments were made in that slightly under the breath "catty" way that some girls do, the "fatty" comments were often loud and meant to draw attention from the entire cafeteria. And comments were the least of what I saw there.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:44 AM

59. He/She needz to eatz a cheezburger



All the time...

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Response to SilveryMoon (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:29 AM

9. There is a skinny person I know

And I have shut up the assholes saying shit to her and the shit said behind her back with skilled and vicious verbal retorts that shamed the living shit out of those ass hats in public.They won't dare say jack shit about her now.They don't want me to read their beads again.LOL Besides if they say anything about her after what said they will lose their friends..

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Response to SilveryMoon (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:09 AM

69. LOL

That's is not the reality that I live in.

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Response to SilveryMoon (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:34 AM

77. the term "anorexic" gets thrown around -- basically saying 'if you a thin you are crazy'

Lots of nice,friendly characters are heavy: Santa Claus, Bob's Big Boy, Garfield

Lots of thin characters are negative: Mr. Burns (Simpsons), Scrooge, Golum

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:20 AM

5. Different ppl have different genetical make ups, we cant all look the same, its so stupid!

Banning large sodas is such of commie era artifact, i dont even find it funny.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)


Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:25 AM

8. I think there's more science than bigotry behind it

...but then I only know about the science part. I don't drink anything with HFC syrups, and I very much discourage my kids from drinking it.

Of course, as has been mentioned, simply drinking diet soda gets around that problem. I don't drink that because I don't like the taste of artificial sweeteners, but I'm not sure if there is any reasoning in the NY restriction over limiting diet sodas.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:29 AM

10. same thing was told to us, when allowed only certain ratios of food / day

that is was "healthy"!

trust me, you dont want to live in that kind of society.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:35 AM

12. Health is in the mind first

otherwise its nowhere at all.

Perhaps the campaign against cigarettes was effective because they didn't ban them but relied on education and social pressures instead.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:36 AM

13. Actually

Diet soda causes weight gain. No soda that I know of uses stevia, eurbithol or xylitol.
3 sweeteners that Don't cause weight gain.Because big cola is too greedy to use it..And the sugar sweeter companies have tried to ban access to stevia for years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57359222/study-diet-soda-can-lead-to-weight-gain/

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:51 AM

22. Yes, I've read those studies too

...but I think that's a whole different issue than there is with HFCS.

Restricting something because it causes weight gain is a different thing that restricting something that causes hypoglycemia, and eventually diabetes. One's weight is one's own business, for the most part, but when the balance of evidence shows that we are permanently sickening children before they have a choice about it...I suppose that exaggerates the case a bit, but you see what I mean. Statistically, high fructose corn syrup leads to hypoglycemia and diabetes. Limiting intake is a good thing especially for children, but in the long run I'd like to see sodas made with cane sugar.

Speaking of which - when we do drink soda - taking ginger ale along on trips, for instance - we get Hansen's made with cane sugar. Its very good, and costs a few cents more. Why doesn't the industry just switch back to this, which has fewer and more easily understood bad affects?

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:55 AM

24. HFCS is Cheeper than sugar.HFCS = more profits.

And our corporate run country puts profit over people every time.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:08 AM

68. I drink sodas made with stevia all the time...

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:27 AM

74. No, the ban doesn't apply to diet sodas. nt

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:32 AM

11. I see this from a different - anti-corporatism angle

When I was young, there were sizes of small, medium and large and they were not budget busters. Somehow the businesses figured out it was the labor that cost them more, so they could sell you larger sizes it would not really cost them that much more. so they increased the sizes to extra large, giganto and humongous. If you look at the prices, it makes sens to buy the humongous because it only cost little more and look how much more you get - but if you only want a small for under a dollar, it is not there.

My only hope here is that maybe they will sell more normal sizes for affordable amounts. It is all a business ploy to super size things, I just want a choice to get a normal size once in a while.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:49 AM

19. Darkangel you got that right..

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Frederick Douglass

Some people should tape this quote to their bathroom mirror until they understand what it means.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:46 AM

17. Let's Riot, Break A Few Windows

Effing government in NYC!

Me me me


A Dr. Told me years ago to stop drinking Coke, it is toxic and terrible for your health. But I only drink one or two per week I whined. She said no more!

Effing doctor ruined my life....oh wait! Now I never get sick, haven't taken an antibiotic in 17 years!

Health...it's better than being sick...omg!

It took getting really sick before I would give up the toxic but delicious brown drinks made by a corporation that SUCKS to see the light! These drinks do a body no good!

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Response to otohara (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:50 AM

20. Riot is not the answer.

Educate people on whats healthy and whats not. And if they still ignore the facts, let them do whatever they want. Its their body, not the local's gov.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:48 AM

34. It took a doctor to convince me

I did not want to give up my treat. Fortunately I had a doctor who told me the truth about how bad these products are. Most docs don't do that, they just put folks on drugs. Coke makes money, doc makes money, environment suffers, people get sick and fat.

USA we are number 1... In obesity!

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Response to otohara (Reply #34)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:52 AM

38. number one in greed

Obesity is a side effect of corporate policy,profit over people.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:08 AM

41. That Too...Another GOOD Reason

To give up their shitty foods and drinks.
I bet Coke, Kraft, PepsiCo etc... support republicans over Dems
Fuck em!

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Response to otohara (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:53 AM

23. Otohara

I don't want to be told what I can and cannot have. I choose to not drink sodas.But the thing is I CHOSE,I was not FORCED "for my own good" by the stupid politicians who have no right to monitor my choices and decide them for me. It's an abuse of POWER issue as I see it.

I eat healthy but I have issues with power abusers.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:15 AM

26. Sounds like the Ron Paul-libertarian argument.

"Company wants to pay its employees $2 an hour? Hey, just don't work for them! What right does the government have to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to work for $2 an hour?!"

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:27 AM

27. Sorry but your arguments dont hold.

Since youre comparing apples with oranges.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:29 AM

28. The RIGHT to a minimum wage, has nothing to do with the BAN on xl sugary drinks. n/t

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:34 AM

29. But there is no "RIGHT" to buy or sell large sugar drinks,

now is there?

Note that not one single drink is being banned. The serving size is simply being limited.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #29)


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:50 AM

36. Most liberals believe the government has an interest in promoting the general welfare -- even a duty

to do so.

You sound like Milton Friedman, who used to rant against airbags. He insisted it only affected the people inside the car, and therefore the government has no right to require those safety mechanisms.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #36)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:09 AM

43. are you attacking/ mislabaling my political stand only because you disagree with my point of view?

so lame.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #43)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:30 AM

48. I didn't attack you. I said your argument sounds like Milton Friedman's.

He opposed safety regulations like airbags because "it only affects the people inside the car"

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #43)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:37 AM

49. Yeah, that's the standard MO

For real hilarity compare the people that think the government should be able to ban soft drinks with the people that lost their fucking minds over the government regulating and enforcing that regulation on raw milk. It's usually the same people.

I've got issues with the government trying to tell adults what they can or cannot do when it isn't hurting anyone else because even if it were something I agreed with, it won't be long before they try to hit a marginalized group with it. (In fact, it's usually the marginalized groups they try it against.) Even if conclusive studies* can be brought forward to show certain types of sex transmit STDs at a higher rate, I'm never going to be ok with sodomy laws. Unfortunately, the arguments we're seeing in favor of banning Big Gulps or whatever are supportive of the idea, if not the actual laws.

*No such studies exist, as far as I'm aware.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:36 PM

91. Wow. Are you saying that we can only do things allowed to us by the government?

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #91)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:43 PM

92. Uhh, no. Not in the least.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:14 AM

45. Beat that strawman, show it who's boss.

Comparing grown adults being able to decide what they do or don't want to put in their bodies to employees being forced to work for slave wage? Yeah, that's accurate.

While we're making silly comparisons, your arguments sound an awful lot like the people that want to regulate who adults can have sex with. Entirely for their own good, of course.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #45)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:29 AM

47. And your argument sounds like one from Milton Friedman,

who said we shouldn't have safety regulations like airbags because they only affect the people inside the car. And if people want to take that risk then by God they should be able to.

Most liberals believe that the government has an interest in preventing unsafe products from coming to the market. Most liberals believe the government should promote the general welfare.

Oh, and nobody would be "forced" to work for such a wage. Grown adults should be able to decide for themselves what kind of wage they want to work for. Right? (Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?)

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #47)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:38 AM

50. So if the government

can prove that certain types of sex increase the rate of STD transmission, you're going to back sodomy laws? That's kind of messed up man.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #50)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:47 AM

52. So you think the government doesn't have a duty to promote the general welfare

and public health and safety? Now that's messed up, man.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #52)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:53 AM

53. Absolutely, they do.

What they don't have a duty to do is inject themselves into every single facet of an adult's life, up to and including every single choice they make.

Airbags don't restrict anyone's ability to do anything. You can still drive your car the same way you did before. No one is being harmed by the inclusion of airbags. That's why the airbag analogy fails.

Go ahead, tell me how your argument doesn't apply to sodomy laws.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #53)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:59 AM

54. "Airbags don't restrict anyone's ability to do anything"

And neither do limits on the serving sizes of sugar drinks. Your analogy to sodomy laws fails because no sugar drinks are being banned.

Also, you've got a fairly weak strawman...
What they don't have a duty to do is inject themselves into every single facet of an adult's life, up to and including every single choice they make.

...because nobody has proposed that government inject itself into "every single facet" of anyone's life or "every single choice they make."

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #54)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 03:03 AM

55. That's the same argument

proponents of sodomy laws used. "You can still have sex, you just can't have that kind of sex.".

Come to think of it, posting on a message board at 3 in the morning is probably doing something terrible to us.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #55)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 03:06 AM

56. Maybe it should be banned!

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #56)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 03:08 AM

57. Man I hope not.

If they banned all my bad habits I'd be dead in a week.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #52)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:49 AM

60. That kind of attitude leads to a paternalistic police state.

Oppressing people for their own good, treating then like stupid children who do not know any better.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #60)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:24 AM

79. Hysterical. Nobody is being "oppressed".

If this somehow tried to limit how much you could drink each day, I'd be there with you.

But no. You are not limited in any way in how much you consume. What's being limited is the serving sizes certain businesses can offer. People consume more when presented with more; conversely, when they are not offered huge portion sizes, they consume less. You are free to buy another drink. Most people won't. It's essentially a tax (since people who buy multiple drinks will be paying more tax), but much more effective.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:41 AM

32. It's Like Getting Mad at Obama

For health care! MANDATE!

God forbid our elected officials give a shit about our health!

Shouldn't we be hating on Michele Obama too?

Besides you can still drink the Cokes...right? It's about gigantic cups designed to hook you on their shitty drug. If only the cocaine was still in it! The government intervened on that years ago, cocaine is nasty shit too!

Last year I was in Japan. If you order a coke, it comes in a small thin glass...6 Oz...

The Japanese aren't freaking out and whining. They aren't fat and sickly like Americans either.


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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:44 AM

33. no I am No libertarian.I like to make my own choices about what I eat tho.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:39 AM

31. Did you know that anger causes you to gain weight?

True.

That rant makes you look slim, though.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #31)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:50 AM

35. Being traumatized has a direct link to weight gain..

So does anxiety,depression,eating disorders,vitamin D deficiency, insomnia,medications,perchlorate,low thyroid,msg, age,etc.etc.etc........

I really think body set-points are determined by a lot of complex factors in individual people.
And there is NO one size fits all answer to being fat.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #35)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:52 AM

37. Getting worked up about my weight really makes me want to smoke

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #37)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:59 AM

39. Why are you acting like a jerk? Just skip the thread. Why the need to be rude? Sad. nt

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Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #39)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:08 AM

42. when you hit a nerve

in people they troll.I have dealt with plenty of defensive people on DU who don't like what I post.
I tend to remember I'm not posting for defensive trolls who do not want other people to read my threads.So I remember that plenty of people read threads here,the jerk is one person who can't handle what I type.Yawn.Another asshole online,dime a dozen. I don't sweat the small people anymore.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #42)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:12 AM

44. Goodnight undergraunpanther.

Thank you for posting this, and staying by your beliefs.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Reply #42)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:40 AM

58. Great point! Just get so tired of

assholes being assholes. They are freaking everywhere it seems.

Thanks for the great thread, UGP!

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:25 AM

46. Last thought..and goodnight.


"Tragically, the well-off and the poor are often united in capitalist culture by their shared obsession with consumption. Oftentimes the poor are more addicted to excess because they are the most vulnerable to all the powerful messages in media and in our lives in general which suggest that the only way out of class shame is conspicuous consumption. Propaganda in advertising and in the culture as a whole assures the poor that they can be one with those who are more materially privileged if they own the same products. It helps sustain the false notion that ours is a classless society. When these values are accepted by the poor they internalize habits of being that make them act in complicity with greed and exploitation. Who has not heard materially well-off individuals talk about driving through poor neighborhoods and seeing fancy cars or massive overeating of junk food? These are the incidents the well-off emphasize to denigrate the poor while simultaneously holding them accountable for their fate."
bell hooks

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 02:44 AM

51. That's because like most crappy arguments,

the proponents of it can't make the argument they really want to make, they have to hide it. If you poke them enough it will come out eventually, though: You're infringing on people's god-given right to not have to look at fat people!

When you get past all the bullshit about it being "for their own good" and the concern trolling, that's basically what it boils down to. "I don't want to have to look at fat people, and how DARE you suggest I should mind my own business!"

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:52 AM

61. Would you say anti-smoking and anti-drinking campaigns are based on bigotry as well?

 

/those coming at it from a public health standpoint rather than religious or other reasons.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #61)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:34 AM

81. Yeah

 

just like other anti-drugs campaigns. It's a continuum and then you end up putting millions of people with darker skin in jail for drug offenses. From a public health standpoint.

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Response to tama (Reply #81)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:06 PM

85. So claiming alcohol/tobacco cause major public health issues

 

is based on racism?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #85)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:23 PM

88. Who says so?

 

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Response to tama (Reply #88)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:26 PM

90. Well you just did

 

for one.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #90)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:57 PM

95. No, you did :)

 

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Response to tama (Reply #95)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:58 PM

96. I said:

 

just like other anti-drugs campaigns. It's a continuum and then you end up putting millions of people with darker skin in jail for drug offenses. From a public health standpoint.


I will have to disagree with you there.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #96)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:57 PM

101. I and I said :)

 

And it was clear that disagreed with the continuum argument. Easier to say so directly than with a rhetorical strawman question.

I stand with the continuum argument, because it leads us to the deeper issue, which is intolerance masked as worry about "public health". Government that pollutes our planet, murders us in endless wars, incarcerates us because of idiotic and inhumane laws, psychologically terrorizes us in countless ways, is not a credible negotiator not to mention authority in matters of public health, of which it is itself the worst enemy. Hope this clarifies why I don't trust the good intentions of "government", who ever that is, when it speaks of "public health".

Intolerance in this frame is complex issue of various conflicting situations, which can be difficult to negotiate but usually not impossible. Should you tolerate breathing cigarette smoke if you don't like it? I don't think so. Should a smoker tolerate verbal or physical assault from some authoritarian bastard of "health fascism" if he's not forcing others to breath smoke? I don't think so. What about being forced to live in a city to be able to feed yourself and your family, forced to breath exhaust fumes of cars and get stressed from the constant noise pollution? Is that a public health issue? Should we tolerate it? You see, the line of questioning is starting to get more and more tricky, with no easy answers in sight. And I cannot but accept and tolerate that these negotiations are not simple and easy.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:52 AM

62. I think Fat Phobia is another form of bashing the poor.

Mostly from smug middle class folks who can't understand why we can't afford their health foods they want us to eat. Not surprising that those kind of Latte Liberals are common in NYC.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #62)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:20 AM

72. I am so sick of the argument that you need to have money to eat a healthy diet

I have a poverty level budget right now and eat a very nutritious diet. Of course, I can't afford all organic or the food fad of the week at Whole Foods, but there are plenty of ways to do it on a budget. Buy bulk grains, beans, etc., shop farmer's markets, grow some veggies in your yard or porch, take a look around at all the stores available to you and find the lowest prices on your staples. If you eat clean, minimally processed foods, it's very possible.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 09:58 AM

63. I don't think government should tell people what to eat/drink, I also think

people should manage their diet better and exercise...maybe another jogging craze like in the 80's LOL...

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:00 AM

64. the first thing the Nazis did

was limit the size of sodas.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #64)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:08 PM

86. They 'limited' the size of the Jewish population.

Same thing, right?

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:07 AM

65. It's not just obesity. The ban is widely supported by health professionals. Here's why:


Sugar poses significant health risks, should be regulated like alcohol, U.S. researchers say
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20120207/Sugar-poses-significant-health-risks-should-be-regulated-like-alcohol-US-researchers-say.aspx

Added sugar and sweeteners are “health risks as serious as alcohol and tobacco”
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/05/added-sugar-and-sweeteners-are-health-risks-as-serious-as-alcohol-and-tobacco

Risks: Sugary Drinks Linked to Heart Disease
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/health/research/sugar-sweetened-drinks-linked-to-heart-disease.html

Study Synopses: Sugar-Sweetened Beverages (SSBs) and Health Risks
http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/policy/SSBtaxes/SSBStudies_Health.pdf


etc.


I'm sure this will be challenged, and possibly overturned. Hopefully the national discussion will not center on whether or not ridiculously super giant turbo mega vats of sugar water should be available super cheap ... but will expand to raise awareness of how damaging the over consumption of sugar really is.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:07 AM

66. First they came for the smokers in restaurants,

and I stayed silent because cigarette smoke is disgusting.

Then they came for the Fois Gras eaters in California. And I stayed silent because I don't live there.

Then they came for the enormous sodas in NYC. And I said nothing because soda is a disgusting chemical concoction that has no nutritional value whatsoever, rots your teeth, screws up your metabolism and makes you fat.

Then....... (I'm not really sure where I'm going with this).

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #66)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:19 AM

71. LOL! There's nowhere TO go with that.

Except you should have started with:
First they came for the un-seatbelted. And I said, let them die.
Then they came for the smokers. And I said, let them die.
Then they came for the enormous sodas. And I said, wait, hold on a fucking minute! No way!

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:08 AM

67. By calling them Nazi's you lose the rest of the argument by default

I suggest that since this upsets you so much that you work for his opponent in the next election.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #67)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:24 AM

73. The OP also needs to beware of the apostrophe Nazi's (nt)

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #67)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:04 PM

84. Agreed.

 

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:11 AM

70. This entire thread is hilarious. Where do you get the idea that anyone says losing weight is easy?

No one says this is going to cure obesity. No one says this is going to change the world. But SOME people will think twice about what they are doing to their bodies and that, in general, is a good thing.

My God, this is such a trivial matter. Do you realize what some of you are defending? The right to negatively impact your health. I can understand it if you're a purist who wants limited government meddling but of all the things to rage about, why this?

Why not rage about the middle east situation? Or income disparity? Or anything other than defending the right of big corporations to continue to push you toward ever larger portions of crap to shove into your bodies?

"Nanny state". As many have pointed out, it is ridiculously easy to get around this limitation. So why the outrage?

Methinks it's because many of you don't want to admit that your health HAS been negatively impacted and you simply don't want to change your ways.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:28 AM

75. It's the genetic lottery, basically.

I eat terribly and I admit it: Sweets, candy, high-fat meats, etc. Sometimes I even stuff myself until I can't eat anymore. I've been the same ("normal," closer to the underweight section) weight since I started High School.

I don't have a "trick" or anything like that. In fact, I don't have to do anything at all. I'm just lucky.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #75)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:32 AM

76. It often depends on your age, though.

Sometimes 'stuffing yourself' won't show up until a decade or more later in life. Those fat cells are tricky devils!

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:57 AM

78. I never ever order a soda

larger than a small. I don't see how anybody could glug that much soda. I prefer unsweetened iced tea, however I don't turn up my nose at the occasional Mountain Dew.

I'm kind of torn with this issue. Limiting the serving size is okay I guess, for health reasons. I also think it's a damn shame that people don't have the sense to use moderation. On the other hand, telling me how much soda I can drink is kind of nanny-ish. I'm a grown woman, I can decide for myself what I want.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #78)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:28 AM

80. But no one is telling you how much to drink.

The smaller serving size simply serves as a reminder that drinking bucketfuls of soda is bad for you. You -or anyone else- is free to drink all the teeth-rotting, gut dissolving soda you want.

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Response to randome (Reply #80)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:25 PM

89. That's just it.

Why do people HAVE to be reminded that a giant soda is bad for you? What happened to having common sense?

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #89)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:48 PM

93. Common sense didn't bring down traffic fatalities. Safety laws did.

Common sense didn't greatly reduce the incidence of lung cancer. Taxes and public awareness did.

Promoting the public good is a good thing, IMO, so long as it doesn't go too far. I don't consider this to be too far by any stretch.

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Response to randome (Reply #93)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:55 PM

94. I just hope that the goal posts

for the public good stuff don't keep getting moved. I don't want the day to come where everything people eat & drink is legislated.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #94)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:02 PM

97. I don't think limiting soda size will lead to that kind of fascism.

I understand your point but, hey, soda size doesn't even rank on my scale of things-to-worry-about. Not even a blip. There really ARE more important things to worry about.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:48 AM

82. I wonder if Upton Sinclair wrote about your Food Nazis in 'The Jungle'...

I wonder if Upton Sinclair wrote about Food Faeries... oops, or is that Food Elves? Nope... oh-- got it! Food Nazis in 'The Jungle'...

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:01 PM

83. A 20 ounce soda has 280 calories.

 

On my college campus, I know a couple of obese people who drink two or three of those a day. And they eat a lot of junk food. I'm pretty sure those two things contribute to their obesity.

Now, I'm not saying soda is the only cause of obesity. There are many other factors, such as environment, genetics, depression/anxiety, etc. But, if the two obese people I know quit drinking soda (and eating junk food), I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be obese anymore.

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Response to Alduin (Reply #83)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 12:14 PM

87. C'mon, everyone knows you can eat whatever you want

and it will *always* be someone or something else's fault you are obese. How much and what you are eating has no bearing on how much you weigh. Oh, and you don't need to have any physical activity or do anything that remotely resembles exercise.

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Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #87)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:24 PM

98. I know, right?

 

No one *ever* drinks pop, eats crappy food, and never works out.

It's someone *else's* fault!

I work out for at least 30 minutes a day, I don't drink soda, and I never eat fast food. I'm not obese or overweight.

Hmm...

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:29 PM

99. is it really a ban if you can still go down to the 7-eleven for a giga gulp?

give me convenience or give me death.

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Response to undergroundpanther (Original post)

Fri Sep 14, 2012, 01:40 PM

100. A guide to surviving New York City

1. Go to an exempt grocery store and buy 2 two-liter bottles of Pepsi and drink them.
2. Go to an exempt convenience store, order five Big Gulps and drink them.
Now go to the movies...here's where it gets tricky....
3. Order six 16-ounce sodas instead of three 32-ounce sodas.

In this new draconian, hell you would have consumed five gallons of Pepsi in a day,
but would have had to carry a bigger tray in the movie theater.

This method would provide only 64,000 calories, but surely enough for the active New Yorker.



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