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Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:17 PM

Is the GOP preference for fossil fuel because big corporations are the only ones

Last edited Sun Aug 26, 2012, 02:02 AM - Edit history (1)

who can make money on those sources of energy, where farmers and suburbanites could invest in wind & solar, on a very small scale, - cutting out corporate profits? Is that what it is all about: keeping a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich? That those huge corporations don't want any competition from millions of homeowners? Is that what this whole Romney downplaying of wind/solar is about?

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Reply Is the GOP preference for fossil fuel because big corporations are the only ones (Original post)
applegrove Aug 2012 OP
Incitatus Aug 2012 #1
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #2
applegrove Aug 2012 #3
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #4
applegrove Aug 2012 #5
applegrove Aug 2012 #6
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #7
applegrove Aug 2012 #8
applegrove Aug 2012 #9
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #11
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #10
Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #13
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #14
limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #12
julian09 Aug 2012 #15

Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:22 PM

1. You can't have an honest discussion about energy independence

and base it only on a resource that is finite. So their motive must be profit for the fossil fuel industry

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:29 PM

2. Big oil is heavily invested in wind farms.

as this article from 2008 shows.

Two Oil Companies use "wind farm" tax breaks to shelter profits from income tax It doesn't mention T. Boon Pickens.

They are also heavily invested in solar cells. Big Energy's Big Bets on Solar

They are heavily invested in oil, so want to push its use, but they have also moved to get control of other sources.

The companies have a gigantic amount of money, and will make money no matter where the market goes.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:38 PM

3. But not if people buy single home use size windmills, solar cells, etc. Lot's of farmers

who have done that sell energy back to the grid. My sister heats and cools her house geothermally. I'm sure they look at that and worry that they will lose market share. Then again if none of us are middle class anymore, but are poor, we won't be investing in such alternative energy sources. You need money to save money in this case.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:46 PM

4. Big oil companies are invested in those companies that sell that equipment. They profited.

Big oil and energy companies transfer that power from the maker to the user and profit from it.

I have solar cells on my roof. Best investment I ever made. However, SDG&E profits from the energy I make.

In order to change that paradigm, we would have to fundamentally change who owns energy companies.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 10:51 PM

5. Then why does Romney say nothing about alternative fuel sources? He talks fossil fuel

as the day is long.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:19 PM

6. Because they are funding his election right now. I answered my own question.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:24 PM

7. Big Oil and Big Energy do not talk about their extensive investment into...

wind power and solar power. It's business.

The real reason, I think, is that it is easy to say "Drill Baby Drill" or some permutation. Being the simplest argument, that is the one they make. It is much harder to sell a more complex energy system, but it is being built and controlled by the existing big oil companies.

Also, under Obama Oil production has increased, so his administration has seen its own version of drill baby drill. More even than oil, natural gas production has exploded.

Petrochemicals are still the cheapest and most easily developed form of energy. This will remain true for a while.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:43 PM

9. Here is another article that got me thinking.

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/23/159926765/romney-energy-plan-touts-oil-gas-coal-production

Could it be as simple as the price of renewable energy is only going to go down while the price of fossil fuels is only going to go up. More a profit for the wealthy in their oil stocks than in a sale of solar panels.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:58 PM

11. That is part of it.

But we also have to look at infrastructure. The nation has yet to develop an infrastructure of power sources other than oil. Electric cars are great, but the infrastructure for it isn't there yet. Five years maybe.

We are a nation designed from the ground up to consume oil. It takes a lot of time and money to re-engineer a nation.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2012, 11:51 PM

10. It is not just oil

it is also large scale wind, any centralized means of energy production...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 26, 2012, 12:18 AM

13. I think it's just easy imagery to say oil, oil, oil...

But big oil and energy are not stupid and have moved to invest in, develop, and own other energy sources.

The problem is that it is not a simple argument that lends itself to getting votes. Get some dark haired bimbete from Alaska to say Drill baby drill, or say we will just drill ourselves out of reliance on foreign oil is an easy lie to tell. It has been made every election since Carter. It has never been delivered on, can never be delivered on, but it is believed.

Romney and Republicans say they oppose wind power because Obama supports it.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 26, 2012, 12:28 AM

14. Trust me, we know.

Locally we are following wind, (Industrial facilities... LARGE... ) and we know there is only one kind of green these companies like, the one with plenty of Benjamins.

You know it is bad when both our local LIBERAL democrat (Member of Congress) and our local radical Republican (Member of Congress) are on the exact same page. These two could not agree on the color of the sky to be honest.

That editorial has a link to letters by those two by the way

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/10813

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Aug 26, 2012, 12:13 AM

12. yes

The energy corporations want a fuel they can control. Makes sense. Then everybody is dependent on them for fuel so they can always be assured to make money. It's like they collect rent money from us every time we fill up the car with gas. Distributed power generation means they can't count on getting as much rent.

From my view it's both parties that encourage more fossil fuel use. Obviously the Republicans are worse.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Aug 26, 2012, 01:12 AM

15. They can't sell wind or sunshine, no money in that.

 

They have an interest in solar and wind, only to hinder and slow it down, don't be fooled.
They are against subsidies to green energy, but want it for themselves. They oppose railroad construction because
it would take a lot of trucks off the road. So they pay congress to defeat high speed rail projects. A lot of repug governors are
killing projects that would lessen fuel use. gov of wisconsin rail construction, gov NJ killed tunnel to have people stalled in traffic burning gas. Boon Pickens said yesterday, on MORNING jOE that if they converted trucking industry to natural gas it would have an enormous effect on IMPORTS OF OIL. That 17 million barrels a day go through the Straights of Hormoz, but we only get 2 million of that. We wouldn't need it if we converted to natural gas and wouldn't need to go to war with Iran if they blocked it.
Mitt before giving out his energy policy met with five or six oil executives, his policy is drill all over east west, parks, preserves and ridiculed wind and solar.

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