8Th-Grader Killed By Texas Police Had Pellet Gun

[Purveyor]

(CBS/AP)

BROWNSVILLE, Texas - Police say the weapon a Texas eighth-grader pointed at officers in a school hallway before they killed him was a pellet gun that looked like a real handgun.

Interim Brownsville Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez says 15-year-old Jaime Gonzalez had "plenty of opportunities" to lower the weapon but "didn't want to."

Rodriguez says two officers fired three shots and struck Gonzalez at least twice.

--CLIP
Rodriguez says that before the confrontation with police, Gonzalez walked into a Cummings Middle School classroom and punched another boy in the nose. He says he doesn't know why Gonzalez brandished the weapon but that the initial call to police said a student had a gun.

MORE...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57352546/8th-grader-killed-by-tex-police-had-pellet-gun/

[dionysus]

1. sad. some of those bb pistols would look real, if not held completely still.

[Xipe Totec]

2. With machine guns, grenades, and bazookas going off right across the border, I'm not surprised

not surprised that the cops took the threat seriously.

I just got back from McAllen yesterday, and it is a freaking war zone down there, from Laredo to Brownsville.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Links?

I was THERE!

You have no idea.

This is a war involving the Mexican Marines and the narcoes.

Here is just one example:

[ellisonz]

14. Drug cartels' new weaponry means war

Narcotics traffickers are acquiring firepower more appropriate to an army -- including grenade launchers and antitank rockets -- and the police are feeling outgunned.
By Ken Ellingwood and Tracy Wilkinson

March 15, 2009
Reporting from Zihuatanejo, Mexico, and Mexico City -- It was a brazen assault, not just because it targeted the city's police station, but for the choice of weapon: grenades.

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

The proliferation of heavier armaments points to a menacing new stage in the Mexican government's 2-year-old war against drug organizations, which are evolving into a more militarized force prepared to take on Mexican army troops, deployed by the thousands, as well as to attack each other.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story

That's 2 years ago, I can't imagine it's getting better.

[Xipe Totec]

15. It's not getting better, I can tell you that

My friends and relatives rely on twitter to keep up to date with the scrimmage lines, to avoid getting caught in the crossfire. The narcos are driving around in armored vehicles that can take a direct hit from an RPG. Civilians haven't got a prayer.

[ellisonz]

18. "Civilians haven't got a prayer."

Certainly not from either the US or Mexican government, this madness is indicative that short of a rethinking of strategy on both sides of the Border, it will only get worse. My best wishes to your friends and relatives, and let's pray for accurate tweeting.

[Xipe Totec]

23. Thanks!

On another occasion, I'll tell you the story of six men in my cousin's house, at three O'clock in the morning with long guns, looking for an assassination target. That was less than a week ago.

She's alive, thank God, she was not the intended target.

All she lost was the cash in her purse, they didn't even take her credit cards.

These guys are serious, focused, deadly, and fucking dangerous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yes, yes they are

Here from the LA Times

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

If you want I can offer you videos as well from all over the border

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. While the war on drugs is rather hot on the other side of the border

cops react that way regardless, when faced with anything that looks like the real deal.

[Xipe Totec]

21. You're right.

It's sad that a 15 year old boy died.

And cops all over the US (or the world, for that matter) would probably act the same, given the same circumstances.

I just feel, given the situation close to the border, and sometimes spilling across the border, that the reaction time from law enforcement down there is just that much shorter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. What I find not shocking, is how our media has gone out of it's way

not to report that situation in Mexico. Here, we have areas already under unofficial control by the cartels... this will expand in an obvious manner where the "middle class" lives. (Well to be honest, it did a while ago, but it was ignored... Coronado was home to the Drug lords for a while, perhaps still is)

[Xipe Totec]

29. It shocks me, when I realize how oblivious most compatriots are

of the war raging on just outside our borders.

Juarez Chihuahua is ranked the most murderous city on the planet. Right across the border from El Paso, Texas. You'd think that would be worrisome to somebody in the US, but Noooo.!

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. It is a national characteristic, we are a highly insular country

also asking questions about that war might raise some uncomfortable questions about the US, and DC.

[demtenjeep]

4. 15 and still in the 8th grade?

something tells me this child had much to be troubled about.

[WillowTree]

17. Yeah, I was wondering about that, too.

[tammywammy]

32. He could have just started school a year late

It's not like he's 17 and in the 8th grade.

[Mosby]

6. the police and the public

Need to reevaluate use of force by cops.

Shit like this needs to stop.

The cops murdered this kid.

[Codeine]

9. He killed himself.

He pointed a gun at a group of armed men. That way lies madness, and usually death.

[TheDebbieDee]

12. That's how I read it, too. Suicide by Cop.............

[lonestarnot]

24. This was a freak'n kid for shit sakes, don't they cops do target practice any more? Why not shoot

'im in the legs or shoulder. Fucking A.

[ManiacJoe]

31. It is not legal to do that.

If you not shooting to stop, you do not believe your life is in danger. If you do not believe your life is in danger, you are not allowed to use deadly force against anyone. Firearms are always deadly force.

And, no, most cops do not do target practice. Most cops do the bare minimum needed to qualify with their gun.

[teddy51]

10. Put yourself in the place of the cops, they know all to well that the gun may

very well have been real. Know way would I wait to find out.

[RebelOne]

37. In this case, I am on the side of the police.

How could they have known that it was not a real gun?

[virgogal]

11. It was self defense----they only have milliseconds to decide whether the gun was real or not.

[rfranklin]

13. Got a link to the video?

I'd like to see it for myself before I decide.

[virgogal]

28. Nope,no link to a video. I just read the article which is the way I got my news

for the most of my life.

Works for me.

[Edweird]

16. A question for you.

Could you reliably determine the threat from this from a distance?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. Just curious. No orange tip? Not saying that would have helped but I thought they were required.

[Jean V. Dubois]

35. While orange tips are required on toy guns, pellet guns are not toys, therefore no orange tip.

In any case the owner of a toy gun with an orange tip is not required to keep it on, he may paint over it or remove as he wishes.

[sibelian]

39. I don't think that's reasonable.

We can only expect the police to act on the information they have. If it was difficult to establish from a distance that it was a replica gun it's not really the fault of the police that the child chose to portray himself as a credible threat.

[Mosby]

45. Why couldn't they use non-lethal means first?

Some stun guns fire electrodes over a distance.

Or they could have used a device that shoots a net.

Or they could have sent in a K9.

Or they could have winged him in the leg.

A K9 would have been the best bet, they would have known it was a pellet gun instantly.

[teddy51]

7. Sad as it may be, if I were a law officer I would not be waiting around to see if

the gun were real or not before I acted. At that point it is his life or mine!

[Hoyt]

8. Not sure police had much choice, but this is indirect effect of our idiotic love affair with guns.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

22. I had a bad feeling about this story when I read the first headlines.

My thought then, before knowing it was a BB gun, was 'why couldn't they negotiate with an 8th grader'. I think the fear level has just gotten ratcheted up too high, and over-reaction is sadly becoming the first reaction.

[GoCubsGo]

43. It's really hard to negotiate with crazy.

It doesn't matter if that person is an 8th grader or an adult. Irrationality has no age limit.

[UTUSN]

25. It's a difficult call, but the Wingnuts will take advantage. n/t

[Evasporque]

27. 2nd amendment protects us so we can buy realistic pellet guns to give our kids for christmas....nt

[Jean V. Dubois]

33. What's your solution? Outlaw realistic pellet guns?

If not, then this appears to be a problem without a remedy. And if you do want to outlaw realistic pellet guns, all I can say is good luck with that in today's political climate.

[HappyMe]

42. Not outlaw. Maybe they should make the

pellet guns in a completely different color. Yellow, red....whatever. Something from the factory so that it cannot be mistaken.
I really don't know if this will help, but might be worth a try.

[Jean V. Dubois]

46. A can of black spray paint would counteract making them colorful.

Manufacturers are already free to make colorful versions of their products. Since they don't (aside from the occasional pink pistol marketed to women), there doesn't appear to be much of a market for them.

Sometimes the proper reply to "If it might only save one life, isn't it worth it?" is "No".

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. I don't know anything about pellet pistols

but I have some pellet rifles that could cause severe injury to a person, possibly death.

With muzzle velocity nearly the speed of sound, a .177 caliber pellet could easily pierce parts of the skull.

Pistol probably have much less muzzle velocity, but could still probably pierce skin, eyeballs, etc.

They are not toys. I just try to follow the usual safety rules for firearms when I'm target shooting with a pellet rifle.

So, if he pointed it at a cop, the cops' shooting seems justified. The kid made a poor decision.

[hobbit709]

38. People have been killed by pellet guns

It takes a hit in the right place but the human body is vulnerable in certain places to even a hit by a pellet. At the least, you can get blinded by a hit in the eye.

[Jean V. Dubois]

48. There are high powered air guns that can be used on big game, up to .50 calibre.

They're rather exotic as far as air guns go, of course. Your point is well taken, even a low-powered air pistol can cause injury or death, although it would be almost impossible to kill someone with a .177 pellet at 450 fps.

[backtoblue]

40. Couldn't they have shot his hand holding the gun?

I'm very naive when it comes to firearms, but I think a shot knocking the gun from the boy's hand could've prevented his death as well as preventing him from hurting anyone.

[MH1]

41. You are expecting expert marksmanship from everyday police officers?

They aren't paid for that, and their tax base isn't paying them to be that well-trained.

I would love to see a world where every police officer could shoot so well that they really could shoot accurately to disable in cases like this. But I think that's a far place from where we are.

[GoCubsGo]

44. No. That's Hollywood's version.

It rarely happens that way in real life. It only takes a fraction of a second for someone to turn, point his gun at you and shoot you. Can you accurately shoot someone's hand while he's coming at you in even a a couple of seconds? I don't know of anyone who can. It takes most people longer than that to figure out what the hell is going on, let alone react to it.

[Jean V. Dubois]

47. As someone has already pointed out, that's pure Hollywood.

It works if you're the Lone Ranger. If you're in the real world, not so much.