HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » A Visit From My Libertari...

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:52 PM

A Visit From My Libertarian Brother-in-Law

I know everybody has one of these in their family, but I have to rant.

So my wifeís sister and her husband, my dear brother-in-law, came to visit us this week. Now thereís a mixed blessing.

Rob is a one of those guys who always voted Republican, and now considers himself to be a libertarian. He's been slowly going off into the deep end of the pool over the last few years. Hereís a guy who probably hasnít paid Federal income tax (he lives in a no income tax state, of course) in at least thirty years, and yet bitches incessantly about taxation. He pays property tax, and when he has to, sales tax. Period. If he could figure out how to get out of those, he would. Taxes are for suckers, according to Rob.

I generally tune him out, or try to. I donít watch MSNBC, let alone Current TV, when heís around. I basically de-news the house, so I wonít have to listen to his comments/rants.

This time I actually tried to figure out what he was thinking and tried to listen to what he was trying to say. It boils down to this:

He wants no government. Not limited government, NO government. He claims we donít need it. We could police ourselves, put out our own fires, teach our own kids, and generally get by just fine, thank you, without any form of government at all. According to Rob, all governments, everywhere, throughout history were corrupt, thieving and unnecessary.

He says he just wants to be left alone. He completely and utterly rejects the Social Contract. He just simply doesn't give a crap about anyone or anything but himself. He is the epitomy of "I've got mine".

This is a guy who is so angry at everyone and everything, it comes down to that he entirely rejects society, and thinks that this ďideaĒ would work out just fine.

Oh, his kids went to public school, and were eligible for two years free tuition at college. He drives on public roads. The cops and firemen protect his business and equipment and his home, but he doesnít want to pay for any of this. When wildfires threatened his house earlier this year, and the BLM and Forest Service put the fires out, he didnít pay a dime. Not one dime. His drinking water is clean, and he breaths clean air, because the guy who owns the land behind his house cannot open a smelter, because the EPA wonít let him Rob didnít pay for that, either. In fact, he wants the EPA (and every other state and Federal agency) to go away.

Somehow, and he never says just how, he could take care of everything quite well on his own, if "they" would just leave him alone.

So when you get to the bottom of Rob, the real nitty-gritty core, what youíve got is an angry, greedy, white guy who has ideas so cynical, irrational, impractical and juvenile as to defy imagination.

Now that I fully understand what heís getting at, I will be able to tune him out just fine.

39 replies, 4576 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Visit From My Libertarian Brother-in-Law (Original post)
CanonRay Aug 2012 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2012 #1
CanonRay Aug 2012 #4
JHB Aug 2012 #19
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #26
Blecht Aug 2012 #2
FLyellowdog Aug 2012 #3
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2012 #5
Blanks Aug 2012 #12
Turbineguy Aug 2012 #6
Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #7
BlueNinja Aug 2012 #10
Tikki Aug 2012 #8
lsewpershad Aug 2012 #11
lob1 Aug 2012 #34
GeorgeGist Aug 2012 #9
Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #38
white_wolf Aug 2012 #13
maxsolomon Aug 2012 #14
RebelOne Aug 2012 #17
darkangel218 Aug 2012 #32
CanonRay Aug 2012 #35
darkangel218 Aug 2012 #37
Blanks Aug 2012 #15
JoePhilly Aug 2012 #16
Autumn Aug 2012 #18
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #20
Vinca Aug 2012 #21
Smilo Aug 2012 #22
Taverner Aug 2012 #23
locks Aug 2012 #24
patrice Aug 2012 #25
treestar Aug 2012 #27
rug Aug 2012 #28
mysuzuki2 Aug 2012 #29
n2doc Aug 2012 #30
darkangel218 Aug 2012 #31
CanonRay Aug 2012 #33
darkangel218 Aug 2012 #36
Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #39

Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:55 PM

1. I think you should mess with him...

Have you ever asked him why he isn't living in Somalia? No functioning government there...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:57 PM

4. Actually, I did.

He said his "idea" had never been tried, and I told him it's being tried right now in Somalia, and he should check it out. He had no answer. HIs philosophy isn't really a philosophy, it's anger turned outward, IMHO. I think this might cover a lot of Libertarian thinking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:36 PM

19. "Never been tried"? Ha! Tell him he sounds lke a college communist!

"True communism has never been tried" went the refrain. And in a strictly academic sense it's probably even true. But so what? In reality the gap between theory and implementation produced several mass-murdering police states.

His "idea" produces just what is seen in Somalia: a bunch of petty tyrants and their henchmen grabbing whatever they can force from people who would be happy to just be "left alone", using what they get to try to one-up each other, and anyone caught in between pays the price.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:17 PM

26. Oh, I told his response would have been ...

"Too many Black people."

Because everyone knows that after centuries of pre-colonial co-existence without "governments" per se, the Black Africans, alone, spoiled the libertarian utopia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:56 PM

2. I know people just like him

And you're absolutely right -- it is really easy to tune them out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:57 PM

3. what youíve got is an angry, greedy, white guy who has ideas so cynical, irrational, impractical and

Sounds like he's still a republican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:58 PM

5. So he's really an anarchist then?

How about this: tell him you've located the perfect Libertarian paradise, and that he should move there at once. This country has no functioning government, no busybody agencies like the EPA to enact annoying regulations; nobody collects taxes or enforces laws; everybody is left alone to do pretty much what they want. And everybody can have all the guns they want, too.

This would be Somalia.

You could even offer to buy him a one-way ticket to Mogadishu.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:21 PM

12. You beat me to the punch.

He's not a libertarian; he's an anarchist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:59 PM

6. This is the basic flaw of communism

as well as his philosophy. It is based on the notion that you don't have to consider what motivates peoples' behavior. So in an ideal world, both systems would work. But in a real world, they don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:59 PM

7. Some people never get over parent/child conflicts; he is one of them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tom Ripley (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:20 PM

10. Dude, you are so right!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:00 PM

8. Antarctica has no government...no taxes.

It's a place to live...sorta.


Tikki

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tikki (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:21 PM

11. Just leave him alone

He's not living in this world. He's just living in his mind......Sad

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tikki (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:52 PM

34. It's all white, too.

In fact, you can't get away from the white.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:18 PM

9. There are no laws against being a hermit.

I respect their anti-socialism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:52 PM

38. But psychopaths can never maintain a hermit-like existence because they NEED people...

to manipulate, blame, and harm.
Even Ted Kaczynski had to "reach out and touch" others

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:24 PM

13. No government? Great, that makes a socialist revolution so much easier.

Who is going to protect his precious property without the State?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:25 PM

14. How does he not pay Federal Income Tax?

is his income that miniscule?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:33 PM

17. I think it means no state income tax.

Everyone has to pay federal income tax. Georgia, where I live has a state income tax, which I had to pay throughout the year. But I always got a refund at the end of the year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RebelOne (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:43 PM

32. Yup is got to be state income tax. florida doesnt have any either

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:55 PM

35. He runs his own "oil" business

and writes everything, and I mean everything, off. He's found less oil than leaked from my '65 Chevy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #35)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:07 PM

37. Hahahahahaha!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:27 PM

15. Take him camping.

...and leave him in the woods. He might appreciate civilization a little more if he didn't have it for a couple of days.

Of course the pesky government search and rescue people would ruin everything. Damn government.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:27 PM

16. Help him move to a remote part of the country.

Might cost you some money initially, but once he goes off the grid, it will be worth it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:34 PM

18. Wait!! Where is a no income tax state?? And his kids are eligible for 2 years free

tuition at college?? What the fuck is the idiot pissed about?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:37 PM

20. As ohters have said, your brother in law is an anarchist

and a lot of RWers are Anarchists. He is not alone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:43 PM

21. You should buy him a ticket to Somalia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:48 PM

22. I have met several men and women like

him - it amounts to "oh woe is me because..." they have some slight they won't get over. They blame everyone and when the perceive that someone is getting more in handouts than they are well that is just the government running amok and giving away "their" money.

These are the type of people who would find a penny on street and complain it was not a dollar.

They will never be happy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:55 PM

23. That's bad anarchism!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:00 PM

24. I can take care of myself and I am always right

I know someone like that. Except he is more scary because he believes he has to have guns with him at all times including in schools, hospitals, movie theaters, and friends' homes in order to protect himself from the government and his family from all the crazies who believe in the Social Contract.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:11 PM

25. The people I know who talk like that about "corrupt, thieving" government are also very

likely to have never made one phone-call to an elected official about legislation, or written one letter about an issue.

Yes, I know the profound power of corporate personhood, but how did we get here?

Blanket generalizations about millions of government employees implied in "lying government", coming from people who very likely have not fulfilled their own civic responsibilities, but are quite comfortable calling people they never met and about whose government jobs they know extremely nothing really make me sad.

How are we ever going to address authentic criticism of what our government is and how it functions if too many of us continue to live in this la la land in which the expectation is that "government" should read our minds perfectly and enact perfect laws and design perfect programs, without any effort on our part other than the willingness to punish anyone and everyone else and do anything and everything to avoid the hard work of citizenship ourselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:20 PM

27. They don't think it through and idolize a romanticized past time

Like the 19th century west. But then you had to worry about protecting yourself. From everything. He's taken it all for granted to the point where he thinks nothing bad would happen. Nobody would cheat him, steal from him, kick him from his house, etc. Because it doesn't happen now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:21 PM

28. Did he travel all the way on private roads?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:33 PM

29. I wouldn't let a crazy fucker like that in my house.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:38 PM

30. If he wants nothing to do with the government, hope he doesn't vote!

After all, that is just legitimizing their power!

Seriously, though, hope he doesn't vote. Its people like him who make life harder on themselves and everyone else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Original post)


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #31)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:49 PM

33. She's a former Independent, turned Progressive

I think she can't stand the SOB, but tolerates him for reasons beyond my understanding.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:04 PM

36. Yup, love can be blind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CanonRay (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:02 PM

39. He's a psychopath who manipulates her

count on it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread