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Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:51 PM

One simple question to ask Mitt Romney which will destroy his election chances:

What home address do you have listed on your 2008 and 2009 returns?


The question is so simple and straightforward, yet so damaging to Romney. Why? If Romney lists La Jolla, CA as his address on his 2008 & 2009 tax returns, he is a FELON.

That's why he won't release his returns.


...despite not owning a house in Massachusetts and having given every appearance of having moved to California – he registered and voted in the Massachusetts special election to replace the deceased Senator Ted Kennedy. Given the GOP's ongoing use of the "voter fraud" fable to justify modern Jim Crow laws and its highly-publicized persecution of the voter registration group Acorn, an actual case of felony voter fraud committed by the Republican nominee could have been a big story – but Romney was able to tamp down the flames by claiming, not very credibly but also not disprovably, that he and Ann actually were living in their son Tagg's Belmont, Massachusetts basement in 2010.

<...>

In April 2009, Romney sold his longtime Massachusetts home at 171 Marsh Street and appeared to move to La Jolla, California. He did not own a home in Massachusetts again until July 2010.

<...>

But the Romneys, arbitrarily, refuse to disclose a copy of the returns they filed in 2010 or 2009 (for tax years 2009 and 2008)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/17/mitt-romney-tax-returns-voter-fraud-theory?newsfeed=true


Romney is still claiming to this day that he lived in his son's unfinished basement when he voted in the 2010 Massachusetts special election. If he didn't live there, he's a felon. It's that simple.

Now, does Romney and the GOP actually expect us to believe that a man worth hundreds of millions of dollars was actually living in a basement? They do.

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Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply One simple question to ask Mitt Romney which will destroy his election chances: (Original post)
Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 OP
antigop Aug 2012 #1
panader0 Aug 2012 #2
JBoy Aug 2012 #30
klook Aug 2012 #37
cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #3
Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #5
Snarkoleptic Aug 2012 #4
Fawke Em Aug 2012 #7
Snarkoleptic Aug 2012 #15
DallasNE Aug 2012 #11
Snarkoleptic Aug 2012 #16
WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2012 #22
Hydra Aug 2012 #19
BrainMann1 Aug 2012 #6
nolabear Aug 2012 #8
vlyons Aug 2012 #9
Chakaconcarne Aug 2012 #10
cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #38
SheilaT Aug 2012 #43
Redford Aug 2012 #12
Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #13
amuse bouche Aug 2012 #14
treestar Aug 2012 #17
Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #20
spanone Aug 2012 #18
DeSwiss Aug 2012 #21
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2012 #23
Berlum Aug 2012 #24
slackmaster Aug 2012 #25
WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2012 #26
glowing Aug 2012 #27
inchhigh Aug 2012 #28
BlueStreak Aug 2012 #29
loyalsister Aug 2012 #47
MsPithy Aug 2012 #31
sulphurdunn Aug 2012 #32
ThoughtCriminal Aug 2012 #33
annabanana Aug 2012 #34
Wednesdays Aug 2012 #35
Where was George Aug 2012 #36
KurtNYC Aug 2012 #46
Where was George Aug 2012 #50
KurtNYC Aug 2012 #52
No DUplicitous DUpe Aug 2012 #39
Coyotl Aug 2012 #40
WinstonSmith4740 Aug 2012 #41
hifiguy Aug 2012 #42
MatthewStLouis Aug 2012 #44
KurtNYC Aug 2012 #45
TrogL Aug 2012 #48
bucolic_frolic Aug 2012 #49
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #51

Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:00 PM

1. You also have to list your occupations(s) on your 1040. Did he list Bain after he claimed he left?

nt

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:03 PM

2. Seriously, can anyone imagine Mr. Car Elevator living in an unfinished basement?

It's simply not true.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:47 PM

30. He wouldn't even let his car go into an unfinished elevator.

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Response to JBoy (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 09:00 AM

37. Any one of his cars

orcars or horses, for that matter, is probably worth more than my house. Yet he pays a lower income tax rate than I do....

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:08 PM

3. Also, if they ask him about the UBS tax fraud amnesty. 2009 is the magic year for that as well.

So that's where all the focus is.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:34 PM

5. Good point

there's a very real possibility that his returns are hiding two or more felonies

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:20 PM

4. I imagine he's currently filing amended returns to bury this and other issues.

Most people file and are done with it, but it seems that taxes are a work in progress for Mittens. This became apparent when he amended his returns (after lying about them) to meet the MA residency requirement during his run for Governor.

What's mind blowing is that he didn't already clear this shit up since he's been running for 8-10 years. It's almost as though he either doesn't really want the job or knows the fix is in and ES&S will bring it home for him.


ES&S Corporate Headquarters
11208 John Galt Blvd
Omaha, NE 68137

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:54 PM

7. Is that serious?

Are ES&S's headquarters really on John Galt Blvd.?

If so, I think that's enough to open investigations... but we've had a lot of reasons that haven't been follow up on, either.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:33 PM

15. Yep, that's their address...scary huh?

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:16 PM

11. One Of Paul Ryan's Returns He Released Was Amended

He added $61,000 in income, source unknown. It must be part of the bloodline for Republicans.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:35 PM

16. Ryan also had to amend his earlier disclosures.

As he 'forgot' to his his wife's trust fund with a value at between $1-5MM.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:53 PM

22. Well you know how that is, a million here, a million there, you lose track.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:39 PM

19. He's not running seriously

Everything about this screams Bob Dole's run in 1996. No, the current administration is giving the GOP everything they could want, and some things they could never have pulled off themselves...and they get to stand by and throw stones at their own policies being put into action!

*shakes head* I'm glad I don't have any kids to explain this to...

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:51 PM

6. It's true

because a vampire capitalist needs a cold damp place to sleep in the money bags.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:59 PM

8. See? See? Voter fraud IS a problem! Minorities and illegal aliens and...uh...

rich white Republicans...and...uh...

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:07 PM

9. Not only was he living in his son's basement,

but it was an unfinished basement! Yeah, surrrre it was ...

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:10 PM

10. This question better left to the debates???

IS this a debate question? If so, Obama can force him to address the issue and /or squirm in front of the electorate... Otherwise it will get diffused through the media if asked now......

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 10:00 AM

38. It's difficult to be patient....but I think you're right....

they're waiting to attack on some of this stuff until it's closer to the election. They have to try to play their cards right and make sure he gets the nomination, then start asking these specific questions to really get him squirming and lying, and then Reid's source will come out and Romney will be screwed.

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:21 PM

43. Keep in mind that in the debates the candidates

do not question each other. They take questions from the moderators and answer or don't answer as they see fit.

It would be nice if that could be asked of him in a town hall type meeting, if he's foolish enough to hold them.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:19 PM

12. The house was sold in April but that does not mean he cannot claim residency.

Even if it was in his son's basement. Most loans close at the end of the month so he could of owned the house on April 15th. Did he file a state return in MA or CA or both?

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Response to Redford (Reply #12)


Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:32 PM

14. Great question

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:35 PM

17. Where does the basement come from?

Did he actually put it that way, or just use that address?

When did he buy the house in San Diego? Neighbors there could indicate how much he was there in 2010. Probably slippery, since Mittens isn't home much anyway.

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Response to treestar (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:49 PM

20. Here:

Sometime in or shortly before January 2010 – that is, not long after he filed his 2008 return – Romney registered to vote in Massachusetts, stating on his voter registration form that he lived in his son Tagg's basement at 18 Greensbrook Way. In January 2010, Romney voted in Massachusetts' special election, which would be a felony if he was not a Massachusetts resident at the time.

He sold is Mass home and moved to California in April 2009. He didn't own a Mass home again until July 2010. He indicated that he lived in his son's basement on his voter registration form when he voted in the special election, before owning his July 2010 home in Mass.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:38 PM

18. k&r...

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:52 PM

21. I think you've hit the nail upon it's proverbial head.

Absolutely wonderful deductive reasoning.

- K&R





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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:53 PM

23. The graphic for this:


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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:54 PM

24. It kinda sucks to be a felonious Republican liar

who knows he will do FAIL & JAIL if the truth ever emerges...

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:59 PM

25. Do you seriously think they would be dumb enough to EVER show CA as their state of residence?

 

Massachusetts has a flat personal income tax rate of 5.3%. California's rates are very progressive and a lot higher - Now more than 10% on income over $1 million. If it's worth it to them to hire lawyers to save a little over $100K in the county property tax on the La Jolla digs, there's no way they would ever allow themselves to owe a penny in taxes to the state.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-individual-income-tax-rates-2000-2012

ETA I personally know some old time La Jollans who have taken up residence in other states in "retirement" in order to reduce the taxes on their more or less fixed incomes. They still have their beach houses, but as far as the IRS is concerned they live in Texas, Nevada, etc.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:59 PM

26. This is a very valid question and shouldn't be to difficult to clear up.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:01 PM

27. Out of curiosity, where will this numbskull vote at? He's got so many addresses and

seems to lie about everything; where does he cast his ballot? Is he still registered in MA? Did he vote in the primary for himself in any state he owns a home in? Is he going to claim MI this time, NH, MA, or CA?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:15 PM

28. Homestead Tax Credit

Does anyone know if you can tell from the Public information whether someone claimed a Homestead Credit in California. It's listed right on the Assessor's site for properties in my home county in Minnesota.

I found this on Zillow:

Initially, the Romneys asked that their 2009 assessment, $12.24 million, be reduced to $6.8 million, maintaining that their home had lost about 45 percent of its value in the first seven months they owned it.
Thirteen months later, after hiring an attorney to guide them, the Romneys filed an amended appeal, contending the home had suffered a less-dramatic fall of 27.3 percent, to $8.9 million.
They also filed an appeal for the 2010 tax year, claiming the house had dropped further, to $7.5 million, 38.7 percent less than the home’s assessed value.
As a result, the Romneys have saved about $109,000 in property taxes over four years.

http://www.zillow.com/blog/2012-08-07/romneys-fought-for-lower-property-taxes-for-la-jolla-ca-home/

In Minnesota the Mill Rate is the same for everyone but the Taxes due are greatly reduced by a Homestead tax credit if you claim one. My listing actually says RESD-HMST but even when it doesn't you can use the public mill rate to see if the owner has claimed the credit or not.

Is there a way to see if they claimed this credit in California?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:37 PM

29. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the tax return establishes residence.

It seems to me that each state has its own residency requirements, and I have never heard of the "tax address" as being on that list of criteria. Generally speaking it is simply states as maintaining a "residence". In the case of Senator Lugar, he continued to use the address of a a residence he had sold 20 years earlier, but the Supreme Court of Indians ruled that was OK.

I agree it might be a little embarrassing to Romney if he did not list MA. But he probably didn't list CA either. He probably listed a state that has no income tax. There are 7. Does Romney have a mansion in any of these states: Alaska,Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, Wyoming.

I think the laws of Wyoming allow you basically to have a PO box there and call that your residence, so he probably did something like that.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 01:19 PM

47. It doesn't

I think drivers license and voter registration are more likely to determine residency.

"A few months before the election Cheney put his home in Dallas up for sale and changed his drivers' license and voter registration back to Wyoming."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cheney

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:49 PM

31. I know exactly which house he claimed was his primary residence.

The one that is in the state with the most advantageous tax situation for Romney's multi-millions.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:53 PM

32. Mitt might be a crook,

but he's a family values crook by golly!

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 08:10 PM

33. Living in a basement

solidifies the Freeper vote. At last, something they can identify with.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 09:56 PM

34. kickaroonie!. . . . . .n/t

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 01:28 AM

35. K&R

nt

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 01:54 AM

36. RE: Romney/Bain Capital. Help me to get this message out!

 

(before I'm shot dead lol)

I do not have enough posts yet to launch a new thread and so must post here. Others may feel free to re-post this on the main forum. Thanks in advance!

Try not to shit your drawers reading. Heavy stuff kids. Makes Romney's tax problems look like an overdue library book penalty.



latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bain-creation-20120719,0,192124.story
This article shows that Romney paid out a173% average return to his investors, every year, for 10 years, at Bain Capital.
Bernie Madoff is doing life-in-prison for trying to pay out 10.5%. He is, by all accounts, a brilliant investor. He couldn't do 10.5% legally. Romney paid 17 times that. How? The nice answer is by predatory leveraged buy outs.


The article says it was by working with CIA drug money launders; who, with Romney's help, funded CIA death squads. The article shows clearly that Bain Capital was a CIA front.


Furthermore, Jack Hanley of Monsanto says in the article he put in $1 million. With compounded interest, after ten years, he walked out with 12,468,000,000. The CIA manufacture their own billionaires; and then these creations fund the CIA candidates here, and terrorists in Central America. Money laundering is at the core:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vegas-sands-investigation-20120806,0,2898540.story


With Cheney & Bush Sr. cheerleading at the top of their lungs, you have to know that Romney is a very dark member of the the darkest innermost circle

This article, from the July 19, 2012 L.A. Times, shows that Romney has been an operative of this group, groomed, guided, and nurtured since, at least, his first day at Bain Capital.

1) Says the Times: "Bain Capital was enmeshed in the largely opaque world of international high finance from its very inception." Where did Romney get all these international contacts? In Panama? Panama is where the CIA laundered it's drug money. You won't have any trouble, I don't think, finding documentation that the profits from the sale of cocaine were laundered in Panama. It was one of the main charges against Manuel Noriega, the Panamanian strongman that Bush Sr. overthrew (after Noriega stopped co-operating in the cocaine trafficking and money-laundering). You will have much more trouble documenting that all these cocaine profits were CIA profits - but it has been done for you by Gary Webb and others. (3:08 to 5:15 of this video nails it )

2) "The first outside investor in Bain was a leading London financier, Sir Jack Lyons, who made a $2.5-million investment through a Panama shell company set up by a Swiss money manager, further shielding his identity. Years later, Lyons was convicted in an unrelated stock fraud scandal." OK. So the first guy they recruited to invest in Bain was a crook. But not all crooked bankers are CIA, are they? No. But all CIA bankers are crooks.

3) "That first investment fund — used to invest in start-up companies and leveraged buyouts — paid out a stunning 173% in average annual returns over a decade," Bernie Madoff went to jail, trying to pay a return of 10.5 percent. And he was experienced. And a brilliant investor, by all accounts. 173% would be an outrageous return on 10 years. This was the return every single year! He was just starting out. Where does he get the inside information that allows for this kind of return? It is a centuries-old tradition that investment bankers deal in inside information. Which is why the CIA was headed and manned by investment bankers from day-1. Allan Dulles was an investment banker. Spying and stealing information was his bread and butter. Where was Romney getting the inside information that allowed this kind of return? Dude! They were money laundering! How else? Please!

4) "At the time, U.S. officials were publicly accusing some exiles in Miami of funding right-wing death squads in El Salvador. Some family members of the first Bain Capital investors were later linked to groups responsible for killings, though no evidence indicates those relatives invested in Bain or benefited from it." "right-wing" death squads means "CIA," if you didn't know. "U.S. officials were publicly accusing some exiles in Miami of funding right-wing death squads." No. Here's how it works. The CIA approaches a wealthy right-winger. They tell him, "Invest in this CIA front. We're laundering money, and we need some front people, civilians, to give us cover. You will kick us back a certain portion of your outrageous profits, by publicly giving the money to the people we want to fund." So the whole thing is a CIA operation. And it has to be kept dark because the books are utterly cooked, and the profits, 173%, would attract the attention of any prosecutor worth a half a nickel. You can't make such a return honestly. Nobody can.

5) Romney "was the most confident executive I've ever come across," translation: He knew the fix was in on all his deals.

6) From the Times: Romney and Bill Bain were initially "terrified of bringing in Central Americans," Strachan told the Boston Globe in August 1994. "They were afraid of drug money." Reassured by Strachan, Romney flew to Miami to meet the group in 1984. "My friends were impressed by Mitt and the team and signed up for 20% of the fund," Wait. Romney and Bain were initially terrified of drug money. This is Nicaraguan money, the heart of CIA drug operations. But Romney met with the investors and laid the investors' worries to rest. Who was worried, now? Romney was terrified, so he flies to Miami to reassure the men he's terrified of. Right. Makes sense. This Strachan character worked with USAID before coming to work with Romney. He was teaching at a USAID front in Nicaragua. He says that everyone assumed he was CIA. That's because USAID is an infamous CIA front. And then he goes to work for Bain. ??? How did teaching in Central America for the CIA qualify him to work for Bain? His wife still works for USAID. Now, not everyone at USAID is CIA, perhaps. But this guy brought in the Central Americans who were tied to death squads and drug money. Any doubts?

7) The last part of the article, about investors from El Salvador, is hardest to analyze. It's meant to be complex. The 9 or so wealthiest families in El Salvador ruled the country for centuries like it was their kingdom; and slaughtered union, community and political leaders with impunity, eventually sparking a civil war. The CIA moved in on the side of the rulers. "Among the Bain investors were Francisco R.R. de Sola and his cousin Herbert Arturo de Sola, whose brother Orlando de Sola was suspected by State Department officials and the CIA of backing the right-wing death squads, according to now-declassified documents." "suspected by state department officials and the CIA" -- give me a break. The nuns that they raped, and who lived, have testified that the CIA was in the room while they were raped and tortured. The point is that Bain is tied to the families who are closest to the CIA and their death squads. "Most of the money they put into Bain Capital was through corporations set up in Panama with names such as Velof Trust, Jolla and Universal Selling Co. ... In the 1980s, Panama was 'the country of choice for foreigners wanting to make investments on a confidential basis,' said Steven H. Hagen, a Miami lawyer who provides tax advice to offshore companies and international investors." I suppose this confidentiality might be explained as a means of tax evasion. What do you think at this point? 173% return? Bain was using the ruling elite to launder CIA drug money. Bet the farm on that.

8) Times: Jack Hanley, former head of Monsanto Co., put in $1 million. "It seemed like a hell of a smart thing for me to do to ride their coattails," said Hanley, now 83. "I got rich." Wait. Got that? The head of Monsanto did not get rich by being the head of Monsanto. He got rich by investing with Romney. ! ? ! ? Wait. He says he put in $1,000,000. If he left it in to compound, for ten years, he walked out with 12 billion dollars. It's complicated math, but you can do it. The CIA has created the billionaires that are now financing Romney and the right. Adelson is the most ostentatious of the billionaires. Perhaps because he is the farthest removed from this activity. I was a little surprised when I heard about this casino mogul bankrolling the Republicans. Where's the ideological connection? And then it struck me that a casino is an ideal place to launder money. You don't have to show receipts for raw materials, or sales. You deposit as much cash as you want at the end of the day, and no one asks any questions. So then, in the 8-6-2012 Times we find out that Adelson is being investigated for money laundering. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vegas-sands-investigation-20120806,0,2898540.story This is neat and clean money-laundering
Let me spell it out for you. First comes C then comes I then the last letter is A Invest with confidence! You can't lose! The dice are loaded. The fix is in. Water runs uphill, time moves backwards, lone assassins kill progressive politicians. All in a day's work.
latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bain-creation-20120719,0,192124.story
latimes.com
Bain Capital started with help of offshore investors
Mitt Romney's firm raised more than a third of its first investment fund from wealthy foreigners — who mostly used companies in Panama, then known for tax advantages and banking secrecy.
By Joseph Tanfani, Melanie Mason and Matea Gold
3:00 AM PDT, July 19, 2012




Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON — When Mitt Romney launched Bain Capital in 1984, he struggled at first to raise enough money for the untested venture. Old-money families like the Rothschilds turned down the young Boston consultant.
So he and his partners tapped an eclectic roster of investors, raising more than a third of their first $37-million investment fund from wealthy foreigners.
Most of the foreign investors' money came through corporations registered in Panama, then known for tax advantages and unusual banking secrecy.
Previously unreported details, documented in Massachusetts corporate filings and other public records, show that Bain Capital was enmeshed in the largely opaque world of international high finance from its very inception.
The documents don't indicate any wrongdoing, and experts say that such financial vehicles are common for wealthy foreign investors. But the new details come as President Obama has criticized Romney for profiting from Bain Capital's own offshore investment entities, which are unavailable to most Americans.
The Romney campaign declined to comment on the specifics of Bain's early investors. Romney has argued that his offshore investments are entirely proper, and that he has paid all the U.S. taxes that he owes. The offshore funds do provide tax advantages for foreign investors, allowing Bain to attract billions of dollars.
"The world of finance is not as simple as some would have you believe," Romney said in an interview this week with National Review Online.
The first outside investor in Bain was a leading London financier, Sir Jack Lyons, who made a $2.5-million investment through a Panama shell company set up by a Swiss money manager, further shielding his identity. Years later, Lyons was convicted in an unrelated stock fraud scandal.
About $9 million came from rich Latin Americans, including powerful Salvadoran families living in Miami during their country's brutal civil war.
That first investment fund — used to invest in start-up companies and leveraged buyouts — paid out a stunning 173% in average annual returns over a decade, according to a prospectus prepared by an outside bank. It was the start of the private equity powerhouse that ultimately fueled Romney's political career. He now cites his experience at Bain as a chief qualification for the White House.
Romney faced unusual complications when he launched Bain Capital, a spinoff of Bain & Co., the Boston consulting firm he joined when he graduated from Harvard Business School.
At the time, U.S. officials were publicly accusing some exiles in Miami of funding right-wing death squads in El Salvador. Some family members of the first Bain Capital investors were later linked to groups responsible for killings, though no evidence indicates those relatives invested in Bain or benefited from it.
Romney has said he checked the foreign investors' backgrounds. His campaign and Bain Capital declined to provide specifics.
Alex Stanton, a spokesman for Bain Capital, said confidentiality rules barred him from commenting on the investors.
"The hyperbole of political campaigns cannot change the fact that Bain Capital has operated with high standards of integrity and excellence, including compliance with all applicable laws and regulations regarding the vetting of our investors in consultation with experienced counsel and other advisors," he said. "Any suggestion to the contrary is baseless."
Matt McDonald, a spokesman for the Romney campaign, also declined to discuss details of the original fund. "There were many investors who saw the opportunity of a firm that could help fix broken companies and help them grow."
But when Romney and his partners started the firm, Bain & Co. founder Bill Bain — worried the new venture could fail — barred them from soliciting current clients or corporations that would have to publicly disclose the investment, according to an early Bain Capital employee.
Bain partners put in $12 million of their own money, then sought the rest from wealthy individuals.
Records show the first investment in Bain Capital — $1.25 million in June 1984 — was in the name of Jean Overseas Ltd., registered in Panama by Marcel Elfen, a Swiss money manager. Later, the investment was doubled.
The Panamanian shell company apparently was a vehicle for Lyons, the British businessman and philanthropist. Lyons died in 2008.
His son, David Lyons of Quebec, said in a phone interview that he had never heard of Jean Overseas, but he confirmed that his father was "absolutely" an early investor in Bain Capital and said that Elfen, who died last year, was his father's money manager.
David Lyons said that wealthy Europeans like his father often invested through offshore shell corporations. "It allowed some confidentiality," he said. "It allowed a lot of things."
Jack Lyons worked as an outside consultant for Bain & Co., but that ended when he and three others were charged in the Guinness Affair, a stock scandal that rocked Britain. Convicted of fraud in 1990, he was spared prison time due to his failing health, but was stripped of his knighthood.
Romney and his partners also won over the money manager for one of California's wealthiest families, the Crockers, whose family trust put in $4.8 million. Romney "was the most confident executive I've ever come across," said William Swanson, who at the time managed the family's investments.
Other early investors included Robert Maxwell, the British publishing baron, who invested $2 million. After his drowning death in 1991, investigators discovered Maxwell had stolen hundreds of millions of dollars from his company's pension funds.
But early on, the fundraising was still falling short. Harry Strachan, a Bain Capital partner who was born in Costa Rica to American missionary parents, knew Central American businessmen through his involvement in a Harvard-backed business school in Nicaragua. Why not pitch to them?
Romney and Bill Bain were initially "terrified of bringing in Central Americans," Strachan told the Boston Globe in August 1994. "They were afraid of drug money."
Reassured by Strachan, Romney flew to Miami to meet the group in 1984.
"My friends were impressed by Mitt and the team and signed up for 20% of the fund," Strachan wrote in his self-published memoir, "Finding a Path." He did not respond to requests for comment.
The group included some of El Salvador's wealthiest people: coffee grower Miguel A. Dueρas; members of the De Sola family, also coffee exporters; and Ricardo Poma, whose family conglomerate now owns car dealerships and luxury hotels across Central America. Other investors included Frank Kardonski, who co-founded the Panama Stock Exchange, and Diego Ribadeneira, nowEcuador'sambassador to Peru.
Most of the money they put into Bain Capital was through corporations set up in Panama with names such as Velof Trust, Jolla and Universal Selling Co.
In the 1980s, Panama was "the country of choice for foreigners wanting to make investments on a confidential basis," said Steven H. Hagen, a Miami lawyer who provides tax advice to offshore companies and international investors.
The use of an offshore corporation to invest in a U.S. business shields foreign investors from estate taxes, but not income taxes, Hagen said.
At the time, El Salvador was being torn apart in a civil war that ultimately left tens of thousands dead. The Bain investors — some of whom had their plantations seized and family members targeted — were waiting out the war in Miami.
"Many of them were trying to move their money elsewhere," said Jeffery M. Paige, a University of Michigan professor who wrote a book about the Salvadoran ruling class. "It was a difficult transition, and of course their investment outlets were limited."
Among the Bain investors were Francisco R.R. de Sola and his cousin Herbert Arturo de Sola, whose brother Orlando de Sola was suspected by State Department officials and the CIA of backing the right-wing death squads, according to now-declassified documents.
Orlando de Sola, who has denied supporting the death squads, is now serving a four-year prison term for unrelated fraud charges. In an interview at the prison in Metapan, El Salvador, he said he did not benefit from the family investment in Bain Capital.
Before Bain, the family's holdings were based in El Salvador, he said. "I would say their relationship with Bain Capital was a step to diversify into foreign investments. But I insist to you, I was not part of it."
The other Latin American investors declined or did not respond to requests to comment.
Other early investors were happy to talk about their lucrative early bet. Jack Hanley, former head ofMonsanto Co., put in $1 million.
"It seemed like a hell of a smart thing for me to do to ride their coattails," said Hanley, now 83. "I got rich."
joseph.tanfani@latimes.com
melanie.mason@latimes.com
matea.gold@latimes.com

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Response to Where was George (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:56 PM

46. that all has NOTHING to do with voter fraud

and there is a 4 paragraph limit with copying and pasting from other sources.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 05:06 PM

50. Well I appreciate your helping familiarize myself and others with the rules here

 

but that said the material from what i posted earlier SCREAMS for attention. I'm not sure why you would choose to ignore the gravity of this much more serious content. Confusing reaction you have.

The tax situation Romney is in should be enough to prevent him from becoming President. However these much more serious matters of Bain capital being used to overthrow governments and profit from drug running clearly trump anything in the topic.

Its like I'm screaming that the house is burning down. Meanwhile you have this irrational, petty worry about the bathtub overflowing. So you chastise me for yelling too loudly that the house is burning down. I can now see why Democrats are having trouble beating the filthy Republican candidates.

I can't post a new topic due to these arcane rules prohibiting topics from newcomers.

A fine way to welcome new members...

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Response to Where was George (Reply #50)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 06:23 PM

52. You should be able to start your own thread soon

Welcome to DU.

It is considered a violation of copyright to quote (copy) more than 4 paragraphs from one source -- that is not MY "petty concern." That is the way litigation works in the USA so it is true for all sites not just DU. If you don't believe me, ask EFF.

Plenty of people come here to spam, disrupt or pick fights. That is why there is a prohibition on starting your own thread before a certain point. If you hang out long enough you will see it happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 10:08 AM

39. Kick!

The word "crook" comes to mind when reading this thread.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 10:19 AM

40. Brilliant! Just Brilliant!!! Go to Jail, Do not pass thru the Tampa, Go Directly to Jail

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 11:46 AM

41. In addition.

While we're talking taxes...Rmoney has stated he'll release his taxes for 2011 October 15th, so he must have filed for an extension. OK, maybe his people couldn't get his records together in time to file in April. Unlikely, but possible. The thing is, when you file for an extension, you're filing an application to send in the paperwork later. You still have to pay what you think your tax liability is when you file the application. So Rmoney would have had to state that he did not expect to have a tax liability, or he sent them a check for "x" amount. Which one is it, Mitt?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 11:51 AM

42. I think this and the

repatriation of tens of millions under the tax amnesty are why Willard may never release the returns. He's a tax cheat and has voted illegally. Toast.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:41 PM

44. You people need to understand that Mitt is special; he doesn't break laws, he only "bends" them.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:50 PM

45. His answer to this question is: 13%

We are all supposed to freak out and say 13% is not enough and forget about the voter fraud felony thing.

...or not.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 02:21 PM

48. Is there any way of getting an actual lawsuit/trial going, then subpoena them?

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Response to TrogL (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 03:58 PM

49. Probably a local issue

would need cooperation of township officials

who are either (R)

or don't want to get involved

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 05:11 PM

51. I believe ...

I heard on the RMS that romney had listed a massachuetts address, retro-actively.

One of the Rachael followers might be able to confirm.

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