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Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:19 PM

YoungDemCA (897 posts)

Former Romney secretary/Mormon bishop: "I am dismayed" by Candidate Mitt

...But Tony Kimball, another long-time colleague, said he was "shocked" by Mr Romney's "end justifies the means" approach to trying to win the White House.

"There is no way that I can square what Mitt is doing and saying on the campaign trail with the Mitt I have known for 40 years and I don't know how he can square it either," said Mr Kimball, a retired university politics professor who served as another Boston area bishop and then spent seven years as Mr Romney's executive secretary when he was stake president.

"I am dismayed by the things he feels the need to do as a political candidate. This is foreign to the way he spoke and presided in the church. It's not the same person.

"The hard-edged individualism, the turning his back on the poor, the arguing that the rich deserve more tax breaks, that is all counter to what Mormonism teaches about compassion and collective care.

"Mitt seems to create a caricature of Obama and the Democrats and then attacks that creation. I think he lacks the antennae that a good politician needs and I have serious misgivings about how he would manage the White House."

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_mormon-mitt-romney-the-enigma_1729948-2


The more I learn about Romney, the more I intensely dislike him.

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply Former Romney secretary/Mormon bishop: "I am dismayed" by Candidate Mitt (Original post)
 YoungDemCA Aug 2012 OP
LineReply Now that took some
 Wellstone ruled Aug 2012 #1
LineLineReply Romney's their Golden Boy
 YoungDemCA Aug 2012 #3
LineReply The early Mormon church was completely communist, lol.
 kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #2
LineLineReply The early Christian church was also communist
 vlyons Aug 2012 #17
LineLineLineReply Jesus was a communist.
 toddwv Aug 2012 #34
LineLineLineReply The Christian Church ...
 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #45
LineLineReply Thats kind of what happened but not really
 FreeState Aug 2012 #23
LineReply bout damn time one Mormon spoke out
 rurallib Aug 2012 #4
LineLineReply Romney is/was a MAJOR leader of the LDS Church
 YoungDemCA Aug 2012 #6
LineLineLineReply He was not ever a major leader
 FreeState Aug 2012 #24
LineLineLineLineReply My mistake
 YoungDemCA Aug 2012 #28
LineLineLineLineNew Reply I disagree ...
 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #46
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Your giving him way too much credit
 FreeState Aug 2012 #50
LineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Actually ...
 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #53
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I dont see anything in that article that speaks to
 FreeState Aug 2012 #54
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Maybe you missed this ...
 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #55
LineLineReply Here's Brigham Young's great great granddaughter speaking
 Cha Aug 2012 #10
LineLineLineReply Here's Brigham Young's great great granddaughter speaking
 The CCC Aug 2012 #39
LineLineLineLineReply that's neat!
 renate Aug 2012 #44
LineLineReply WE ARE! About 700 of us supporting the Mormons for Obama fb group
 BSUbluNorange Aug 2012 #15
LineLineLineReply Good information!
 Wait Wut Aug 2012 #22
LineLineLineReply welcome to DU
 grantcart Aug 2012 #29
LineLineLineReply Welcome to DU!
 BlueMTexpat Aug 2012 #38
LineLineLineNew Reply Welcome!
 AllyCat Aug 2012 #49
LineReply i appreciate seeing this very much
 DonRedwood Aug 2012 #5
LineReply Let's see how the media covers this...
 kewhawaii Aug 2012 #7
LineReply Put Kimball on the Sunday shows.
 longship Aug 2012 #8
LineReply Mitt is a disgusting ad for Mormon church
 DemocracyInaction Aug 2012 #9
LineReply which presidential canadate is really pro life
 reality2050 Aug 2012 #11
LineReply That took a lot of guts to come out and say
 avebury Aug 2012 #12
LineReply LDS needs to understand that Mitt is the face of their faith now.
 Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #13
LineLineReply Sorry to hear this
 BSUbluNorange Aug 2012 #18
LineLineReply LDS needs to understand that Mitt is the face of their faith now.
 The CCC Aug 2012 #40
LineReply OK, when Utah votes Democrat for the first time in its history, I will buy this. nt
 siligut Aug 2012 #14
LineReply Some Mormons are realizing Mitt is the worst PR they've had since, well, Joseph Smith.
 reformist2 Aug 2012 #16
LineLineReply Agree with half this statement but come on
 BSUbluNorange Aug 2012 #19
LineLineLineReply I hope so.
 unc70 Aug 2012 #31
LineReply YoungDemCA
 Diclotican Aug 2012 #20
LineReply Ann Romney Has Said
 DallasNE Aug 2012 #21
LineReply The guy was a high school bully.
 Hissyspit Aug 2012 #25
LineLineReply Before he was a Bishop
 Coyotl Aug 2012 #35
LineReply Spam deleted by pinto (MIR Team)
 callmemaybe Aug 2012 #26
LineReply Mormons teach about "collective care"? Why, that sounds positively socialist! n/t
 tuvor Aug 2012 #27
LineLineReply They take care of their own very well.
 sadbear Aug 2012 #33
LineLineLineReply They take care of their own very well.
 The CCC Aug 2012 #41
LineLineLineReply you are absolutely correct!
 Bohunk68 Aug 2012 #43
LineReply I had a feeling that Willard wasn't such a scum bag until this
 Doctor_J Aug 2012 #30
LineReply Compassion and collective care?
 Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #32
LineLineReply Compassion and collective care?Yse that's what they believe in
 The CCC Aug 2012 #42
LineReply ... from the ones that know you best
 tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #36
LineReply Many agree
 jsr Aug 2012 #37
LineNew Reply Excellent, but...
 ecstatic Aug 2012 #47
LineNew Reply Warning: I got virus threat when I went to link.
 ErikJ Aug 2012 #48
LineNew Reply Is that a stain in your magic underwear
 Ezlivin Aug 2012 #51
LineNew Reply Wonder if he's the guy who had the chat with Harry Reid, and this is his way of letting Mitt know it
 MADem Aug 2012 #52

Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:30 PM

Wellstone ruled (1,154 posts)

1. Now that took some

balls. Kimball is in for some real push back from Temple Square.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:38 PM

YoungDemCA (897 posts)

3. Romney's their Golden Boy

Has been for a while.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:31 PM

Star Member kestrel91316 (45,383 posts)

2. The early Mormon church was completely communist, lol.

People gave all their money and property to the church when they joined, they held everything in common, and the church provided for them.

Rmoney doesn't want people to know that part. He's ashamed that his own church followed Christ's command to do that.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:36 PM

vlyons (345 posts)

17. The early Christian church was also communist

And all those who had believed were together, and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.
Acts 2:44-46

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Response to vlyons (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:01 AM

toddwv (2,054 posts)

34. Jesus was a communist.

Feed the poor.
Free healing for everyone.
Donate all your riches.
Pay your taxes.

The guy is about as socialist as they come.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:46 PM

1StrongBlackMan (5,377 posts)

45. The Christian Church ...

continues to be communistic ... just not it's most vocal proponents.

The Church hasn't changed, it's adherents have.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:17 PM

Star Member FreeState (7,431 posts)

23. Thats kind of what happened but not really

The members deeded everything over to the church. The bishop would distribute what was left over at the end of the year (it was not a system where everything you had was given to the church and they handed everything out, but rather one where the church handled only what was left over from the family or individual at the end of the year.) (Its also interesting that at this time it was common place to have communities doing this, this was not a Mormon only endeavor).

More information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Order

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:39 PM

Star Member rurallib (31,128 posts)

4. bout damn time one Mormon spoke out

I can't believe Mormons are tacitly accepting his lie and his campaign.
I really believe they put Mormons in a very bad light.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:43 PM

YoungDemCA (897 posts)

6. Romney is/was a MAJOR leader of the LDS Church

I guess it's not surprising that most Mormons trust him.

And the ones who don't trust him, probably are fearful of being ostracized.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

Star Member FreeState (7,431 posts)

24. He was not ever a major leader

Bishop is a pastor over 300 people. Stake president over 1200 people. That's less than .05% of the church membership he was over.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 07:49 PM

YoungDemCA (897 posts)

28. My mistake

Thanks for the clarification.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #24)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:50 PM

1StrongBlackMan (5,377 posts)

46. I disagree ...

That's like saying a governor or a Mayor is not a major leader.

His charge may not be over a vast majority of the over-all Church; but, from what I've read, his charge was everything to those 300 and 1,200 people.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #46)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:19 PM

Star Member FreeState (7,431 posts)

50. Your giving him way too much credit

A bishop is only active for 3-5 years, same with a stake president. Once they are released from the position they have zero power over the people in their ward (congregation) or stake (3-8 wards make up a stake).

I was raised strict LDS and I could not tell you the names of the people that were bishop or stake president outside of maybe one or two that were close family friends, or my father.

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Response to FreeState (Reply #50)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:59 PM

1StrongBlackMan (5,377 posts)

53. Actually ...

being unfamiliar with the Mormon Church, my information comes from the great, great grand-daughter of Brigham Young (in her recent article about romney and the Mormon "male entitlement."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101637842 )

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #53)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 07:51 PM

Star Member FreeState (7,431 posts)

54. I dont see anything in that article that speaks to

how the members of his former ward or stake view him today. Maybe Im missing it?

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Response to FreeState (Reply #54)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:35 PM

1StrongBlackMan (5,377 posts)

55. Maybe you missed this ...

Emmett has watched Mitt Romney very closely throughout his public life and has strong opinions about what shaped his personality and his character. “Mitt is a product not only of his wealth, but of an organization that gives men power when they are 12 years old,” she says. “That is when boys are ordained with the priesthood. It is a big moment in a Mormon male’s childhood.”
As for what pundits say is Romney's difficulty connecting with people, Emmett blames it largely on what she calls “the entitled Mormon male syndrome, where the leadership professes compassion and concern but leaves the manifestations of that to the drones. All male leadership is not this way; there are some wonderful men who do their best to exercise their power compassionately, but many do not.”
Emmett says Romney was a bishop, “a position where everyone defers to you. What a bishop says goes. People come to them to receive blessings.” He then became a stake president, she says, which means he presided over several congregations, and at that point bishops deferred to him.
“Mitt has had people defer to him and not challenge him his entire life,” says Emmett. “In the Mormon church if you challenge your priesthood leaders it’s a very bad thing to do, especially for women. As the world can now see, Mitt has a very hard time with being questioned and criticized; he’s had so little of this in his life."


That is not so much about how people view him, as HIS oriention.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:52 PM

Star Member Cha (124,514 posts)

10. Here's Brigham Young's great great granddaughter speaking

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:52 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

on Mormonism and mitt..a couple of weeks ago.

snip from 2nd page..

"Emmett says she doesn’t think Romney has the ability to separate what leaders of the church want from what the country needs.

“Mitt has been groomed to become president from a very young age,” says Emmett. “The thing is, I think his father would have made a much better president. In many ways the church was more benign then than it is now.”

Regarding Romney and the presidency, Emmett cites a bit of Mormon lore called the White Horse Prophecy that has floated around since the time of Mormon founder Joseph Smith. It suggests that Mormons believe a time will come when the U.S. Constitution is eroding and Mormon leaders will save it and usher in a new theocracy with Mormons in charge. Emmett’s great-great-grandfather talked about it. In a discourse from 1855, Young wrote that "when the Constitution hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the 'Mormon' Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/07/exclusive-brigham-young-s-great-great-granddaughter-on-mormonism-and-mitt-romney.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:57 AM

The CCC (78 posts)

39. Here's Brigham Young's great great granddaughter speaking

Heck we're all related in some way. I'm "related" to the queen of England. That doesn't mean much of anything as I have no chance of ever gaining the British crown even if I wanted it.

The so called White Horse Prophecy has never been accepted by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, popularly known as Mormons, as a doctrine of that church.

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Response to The CCC (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:58 PM

renate (7,923 posts)

44. that's neat!

Sure, we're all related in some way, but it's neat that you're his great-great-granddaughter!

It's good to know that not all Mormons believe in the White Horse Prophecy... the essential question is whether Romney does. Not did, does; he seems to have really changed in this run for the presidency.

Welcome to DU!

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Response to rurallib (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:34 PM

BSUbluNorange (78 posts)

15. WE ARE! About 700 of us supporting the Mormons for Obama fb group

Today in church a speaker made a slightly political comment and about an hour ago I sent him an email discussing the church's political neutrality policy and my opinion. We're doing what we can, please don't assume all Mormons stand behind Mitt because I hate that haha. You can follow more Mormons for Obama at mormonsforobama.org

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Response to BSUbluNorange (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:15 PM

Star Member Wait Wut (6,167 posts)

22. Good information!

Welcome to DU!

Oh, and I don't judge anyone by the actions of one member of any particular group. So, I will assume you are nothing like Mitt Romney.

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Response to BSUbluNorange (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 07:52 PM

Star Member grantcart (38,736 posts)

29. welcome to DU

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Response to BSUbluNorange (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:42 AM

BlueMTexpat (2,594 posts)

38. Welcome to DU!

I was born and raised in the West. I grew up among people of many different faiths, one of them being Morman, and my own extended family reflects that diversity as well. Those Mormans in my community were generally good and decent people who believed in being good to others and treating them as they themselves would like to be treated.

I have no doubt that Mormans like them - and as demonstrated by yourself - still exist.

After all, Harry Reid, one of the causes of the current Romney tax brouhaha, is also Morman.

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Response to BSUbluNorange (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:10 PM

Star Member AllyCat (7,520 posts)

49. Welcome!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:42 PM

Star Member DonRedwood (3,412 posts)

5. i appreciate seeing this very much

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:14 PM

kewhawaii (22 posts)

7. Let's see how the media covers this...

Or doesn't. Recall the orgy of coverage regarding Rev. Wright in 2008. Anyone think we'll see this story get flogged like that one was?

Me neither

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:27 PM

Star Member longship (17,629 posts)

8. Put Kimball on the Sunday shows.

Probably won't happen, though.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:34 PM

DemocracyInaction (2,495 posts)

9. Mitt is a disgusting ad for Mormon church

If this is how immoral a church leader acts, I wouldn't want to associate with such a group of people!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:06 PM

reality2050 (8 posts)

11. which presidential canadate is really pro life

I'm new here and Im not sure if this is the proper place to put this article in
That said since we are speaking on religion I thought this would be an appropiate place.
Mitt is so strongly opposed to abortion that he , thru bain, has profited.
National Catholic Reporter
http://ncronline.org/news/politics/which-presidential-candidate-truly-pro-life
If you feel it is legit please feel free to pass it along.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:10 PM

Star Member avebury (2,934 posts)

12. That took a lot of guts to come out and say

anything against Saint Rmoney. He'll probably get blow back from the church for it.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:12 PM

Bluenorthwest (24,132 posts)

13. LDS needs to understand that Mitt is the face of their faith now.

Last white shirt folks who knocked on my door got told that I remained polite as they funded Prop 8 but now that they are campaigning for both religion and a political candidate they will never, ever be greeted kindly at my door. I called the local Mormon 'church' and told them the same thing. I'll still smile at the Witnesses, but the Mitnessess will no longer met politely.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:38 PM

BSUbluNorange (78 posts)

18. Sorry to hear this

Know though that some of those white shirts bleed blue. I have a brother and as big a dem as me on a mission right now. Not inly that but I cast my first vote for Obama by absentee ballot while I was on my mission across the country

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:02 PM

The CCC (78 posts)

40. LDS needs to understand that Mitt is the face of their faith now.

That say more about you than it does about the Mormons.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:30 PM

Star Member siligut (11,074 posts)

14. OK, when Utah votes Democrat for the first time in its history, I will buy this. nt

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:36 PM

reformist2 (4,061 posts)

16. Some Mormons are realizing Mitt is the worst PR they've had since, well, Joseph Smith.

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:37 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:39 PM

BSUbluNorange (78 posts)

19. Agree with half this statement but come on

Remember, we're a big tent here. Is it big enough for some Mormons like me

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Response to BSUbluNorange (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:26 PM

Star Member unc70 (2,321 posts)

31. I hope so.

I hope our etnt is large enough. Sometimes I think the image of a big tent makes sharing and understanding each other sound easy.

All too often, rather than sharing a big tent, it seems more like sharing an umbrella with too many people during a heavy storm. At best, everyone is still getting wet spmetimes, no one remains dry. And any jostling or pulling in any direction is likely to dump on others who ate close to us.

Whether through faith, philosophy, or reason, practicing love, forgiveness, caring, and sharing is generally more difficult in practice than in theory.

Welcome, and good luck.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:42 PM

Diclotican (3,789 posts)

20. YoungDemCA

YoungDemCA

A brave man. A brave man who say that many is thinking I guess... But who they don't dear to say... I just home more from the LDS Church are stepping forward, and say what they mean, instead of playing duck and cover..

He is a disgrace for a man in general - but also a disgrace for everyone in the church, who might believe in sharity and to help people who is less fortunate then them self.

I really hope, from my corner of the world, that mr Romney are NOT elected to the President of the United states.. I have no clue what he would do, if elected.... But it would not be anything good...

Diclotican

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:12 PM

DallasNE (2,950 posts)

21. Ann Romney Has Said

That it is "our turn" for "you people" to send them to Washington DC. Perhaps he is focusing on the wrong Romney for the source of the problem. Then, again, it could be a team problem.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

Star Member Hissyspit (40,048 posts)

25. The guy was a high school bully.

And has done anything that has been useful for making him as much money as possible. I don't have any problem squaring it.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 09:21 AM

Coyotl (5,155 posts)

35. Before he was a Bishop

and a Dark Knight

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

callmemaybe This message was hidden by Jury decision.

Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 07:31 PM

tuvor (15,644 posts)

27. Mormons teach about "collective care"? Why, that sounds positively socialist! n/t

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Response to tuvor (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:04 PM

sadbear (4,218 posts)

33. They take care of their own very well.

As long as their own do their damnedest to make their tithing. Everyone else can pound sand.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:09 PM

The CCC (78 posts)

41. They take care of their own very well.

I feel sorry for a church that take can't take care of its own. Plus for a relatively small church, 14/15 million out of 7 billion isn't very big. The Mormons spend considerable efforts and money on those that are not Mormon.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:30 PM

Star Member Bohunk68 (512 posts)

43. you are absolutely correct!

Our county (Schoharie) in Upstate NY suffered a great deal from the flooding of Hurricane Irene. When I was helping to form the Long Term Recovery Group, we asked all faith based groups and non-faith based groups to join the coalition to help out our less fortunate brethren. The LDS opted not to do so, telling me that they took care of their own. In other words, screw everybody else.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 08:57 PM

Star Member Doctor_J (26,339 posts)

30. I had a feeling that Willard wasn't such a scum bag until this

It is just disgusting what Limpballs has done to this country and its people (including Willard)

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:59 PM

Star Member Canuckistanian (42,195 posts)

32. Compassion and collective care?

Is that what the Mormon church believes in?

If so, then they must be APPALLED at Mitt's choice of the uber-Randian Paul Ryan.

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #32)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:12 PM

The CCC (78 posts)

42. Compassion and collective care?Yse that's what they believe in

Yes that's what they believe in, and yes many are APPALLED by Mittens.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 09:53 AM

tomm2thumbs (9,180 posts)

36. ... from the ones that know you best


this campaign is imploding on so many levels, it can't be counted!

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

jsr (3,497 posts)

37. Many agree

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:50 PM

Star Member ecstatic (18,599 posts)

47. Excellent, but...

""The hard-edged individualism, the turning his back on the poor, the arguing that the rich deserve more tax breaks, that is all counter to what Mormonism teaches about compassion and collective care..."


If that's the case, why does the Mormon Church own so many shares in vulture capital companies, like Bain?

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:41 PM

Star Member ErikJ (2,632 posts)

48. Warning: I got virus threat when I went to link.

But the ad kept popping up with threat warning.
I had to shut off my computer and hopefully its gone now.

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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:21 PM

Star Member Ezlivin (8,016 posts)

51. Is that a stain in your magic underwear

or are you shitting me?


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Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:23 PM

MADem (85,972 posts)

52. Wonder if he's the guy who had the chat with Harry Reid, and this is his way of letting Mitt know it

was him????

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