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Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:41 PM

Assange turned out to be a coward

The man who became world famous for his fight for freedom of expression would rather settle in a country where independent television stations are closed and critical journalists imprisoned, than allow himself to be questioned by Swedish police ...

What if Assange instead had backbone enough to get on a flight to Stockholm? The hearing, of course. It does not seem unbelievable that the investigation might then be thrown in the trash. Given that prosecutors had dropped it and taken it up again, the evidence certainly may not be optimal ...

The truth is that Julian Assange is talking shit about the reasons to escape the Swedish justice. He has proven to be a completely different person, than the heroic fighter for freedom he pretends to be.

Maybe he just could not manage his worldwide fame, and it turned him into a conspiracy theorist, of the sort that might as well spend his days brooding over why Obama refuses to recognize why Elvis lives, as wonder how he could get to Ecuador ...

Assange visade sig vara ett fegt kräk
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/oisincantwell/article15270151.ab

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Reply Assange turned out to be a coward (Original post)
struggle4progress Aug 2012 OP
WillyT Aug 2012 #1
xiamiam Aug 2012 #12
HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #21
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #25
Zorra Aug 2012 #44
WillyT Aug 2012 #91
Tess49 Aug 2012 #181
Zalatix Aug 2012 #110
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #119
Matariki Aug 2012 #135
Nostradammit Aug 2012 #201
HERVEPA Aug 2012 #2
joeybee12 Aug 2012 #3
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #29
Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #48
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #51
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #101
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #116
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #118
progressoid Aug 2012 #209
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #60
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #71
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #73
eridani Aug 2012 #106
creeksneakers2 Aug 2012 #78
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #80
Warpy Aug 2012 #79
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2012 #107
tama Aug 2012 #128
Vox Moi Aug 2012 #4
PragmaticLiberal Aug 2012 #49
20score Aug 2012 #162
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #5
mazzarro Aug 2012 #108
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #6
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #62
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #140
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #143
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #145
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #148
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #149
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #153
MADem Aug 2012 #180
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #182
MADem Aug 2012 #183
EOTE Aug 2012 #197
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #199
EOTE Aug 2012 #203
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #204
EOTE Aug 2012 #205
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #206
grantcart Aug 2012 #7
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #36
niyad Aug 2012 #8
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #11
MNBrewer Aug 2012 #19
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #31
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #35
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #37
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #38
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #41
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #52
pnwmom Aug 2012 #113
girl gone mad Aug 2012 #172
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #190
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #192
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #173
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #103
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #198
HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #30
leveymg Aug 2012 #45
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #57
MADem Aug 2012 #184
leveymg Aug 2012 #185
tama Aug 2012 #129
Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2012 #9
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #28
sendero Aug 2012 #10
xiamiam Aug 2012 #22
former9thward Aug 2012 #68
laundry_queen Aug 2012 #77
Dragonfli Aug 2012 #85
former9thward Aug 2012 #195
laundry_queen Aug 2012 #202
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #87
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #167
russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #13
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #14
Cleita Aug 2012 #18
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #54
Cleita Aug 2012 #55
Cleita Aug 2012 #15
Cicada Aug 2012 #16
Electric Monk Aug 2012 #17
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #23
LineLineReply !
graywarrior Aug 2012 #27
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #33
Auntie Bush Aug 2012 #39
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2012 #109
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #160
Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #20
lordsummerisle Aug 2012 #24
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #26
Demeter Aug 2012 #32
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #34
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #117
Demeter Aug 2012 #125
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #130
tama Aug 2012 #131
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #141
tama Aug 2012 #147
frylock Aug 2012 #154
progressoid Aug 2012 #210
Marrah_G Aug 2012 #40
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #42
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #63
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #43
msongs Aug 2012 #46
Gregorian Aug 2012 #47
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #53
tama Aug 2012 #134
SidDithers Aug 2012 #50
Cha Aug 2012 #67
Bonobo Aug 2012 #89
Owl Aug 2012 #56
hifiguy Aug 2012 #61
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #64
bhikkhu Aug 2012 #58
Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #59
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2012 #65
Cha Aug 2012 #70
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #75
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #124
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #138
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #142
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #146
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #156
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #105
Capt. Obvious Aug 2012 #123
Matilda Aug 2012 #66
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #76
The Magistrate Aug 2012 #102
Incitatus Aug 2012 #69
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #72
Incitatus Aug 2012 #74
Hydra Aug 2012 #81
Incitatus Aug 2012 #82
Marr Aug 2012 #83
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #86
Bonobo Aug 2012 #88
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #92
Pharaoh Aug 2012 #115
uncle ray Aug 2012 #93
RZM Aug 2012 #94
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #97
RZM Aug 2012 #99
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #120
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #126
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #90
Bonobo Aug 2012 #95
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #96
Bonobo Aug 2012 #98
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #114
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #133
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #139
Incitatus Aug 2012 #84
polly7 Aug 2012 #100
cyclezealot Aug 2012 #104
Zalatix Aug 2012 #112
cali Aug 2012 #111
cyclezealot Aug 2012 #121
OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #122
treestar Aug 2012 #127
hobbit709 Aug 2012 #132
treestar Aug 2012 #158
tama Aug 2012 #166
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #168
hobbit709 Aug 2012 #171
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #163
KansDem Aug 2012 #136
Matariki Aug 2012 #137
Alduin Aug 2012 #144
yurbud Aug 2012 #150
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #155
yurbud Aug 2012 #151
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #178
yurbud Aug 2012 #207
djean111 Aug 2012 #152
Taverner Aug 2012 #157
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #159
20score Aug 2012 #161
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #179
Zorra Aug 2012 #193
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #194
Zorra Aug 2012 #196
Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #164
HangOnKids Aug 2012 #200
tama Aug 2012 #165
sibelian Aug 2012 #169
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #174
Zorro Aug 2012 #170
Zorra Aug 2012 #191
Octafish Aug 2012 #175
Overseas Aug 2012 #187
brush Aug 2012 #176
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #177
TroglodyteScholar Aug 2012 #186
H2O Man Aug 2012 #188
Overseas Aug 2012 #189
Erose999 Aug 2012 #208

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:43 PM

1. Are You Paid By The Word, The Post, Or The Opinion ???

struggle4progress

My Ass.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

12. ooh willy, +100000000000

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

21. However... but he is being paid.

Only question is by who?

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

25. Now, now, it's against DU rules to accuse other DUers of astroturfing...

even if the accusations are true.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

44. Bwahaahaa! Darlin'...you have done won my heart forever.



To WillyT!





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Response to Zorra (Reply #44)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:39 AM

91. Bring A Nickel, Tap Yo Feet...





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Response to Zorra (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:16 AM

181. Love this! n/t

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:15 AM

110. Gotta go with you on that one.

 

When it's me looking at the choice between being a political prisoner or fleeing to some place where I won't go to jail... who knows? I can't judge.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:52 AM

119. + whatever is the most plus possible.

This one's obsession is odd, really odd.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:50 AM

135. lol

it's so predictable, isn't it?

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:34 PM

201. Dude has averaged 22 posts a day for 8.5 years.

He's served on a jury 147 times, which must mean he is on here constantly.

Good work if you can get it.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:44 PM

2. Yeh, keep ignoring the possibility of his being sent to America.

You just never give up, do you. Schmuck.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

3. 65,000+ posts?????

Is this apologist dribble the best you can come up with?

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

29. You aren't interested in what the Swedes are saying in response to all the accusations

Last edited Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:37 PM - Edit history (2)

that they're lackeys of the Americans and their women fuck whoever the CIA asks them to fuck?

Whatever happened to the reality-based community?



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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:32 PM

48. I remember when the vast majority of U.S. citizens believed that Al Gore invented the internet.

Thank you right wing media.

All you have. All you post is Swedish right wing propaganda. You can count on the overall ignorance of both the left and right in the U.S. of European media.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:36 PM

51. The point of view doesn't seem very rightwing to me: the author doesn't believe Assange

has much to fear and seems to think the Swedish matter might be dismissed pretty quickly

But he doesn't like Assange. That seems to be blasphemous in some circles

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #51)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:36 AM

101. It's more than "the author doesn't like Assange."

The article is written in such a way to persuade the reader to dislike Assange as well.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #101)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:45 AM

116. Eeek! It's an attempt at persuasion! *hand-wringing*

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #116)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:54 AM

118. Very good, you identified the intent

Now, the question is, what is the author's agenda? WHY is the author trying to persuade you to dislike Assange? With such invective no less! A chicken-shit heel! Tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist!

Of course, the easy answer is that the source you're citing happens to be a shit tabloid with a shitty record of shit journalism (even by tabloid standards.)

Can we look forward to this being a regular feature from you? because if you're not going to provide cruller recipes I'd just love to read more about Robinson-Robbie's apparent comeback, or how Lisa Högberg (28; mother of two) lost 13 kg thanks to a new fad diet - all in three paragraphs or less!

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #118)

Wed Aug 22, 2012, 03:42 PM

209. +1

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:56 PM

60. Read the comments if you want to know what the Swedish people think I just did:

The idiot who wrote the article appears to be getting trashed. Just a few samples so far:


Fredrik Karlsson · Helsingborg, Sweden

You can think what you will about Assange's behavior. But I think Aftonbladet are on extremely thin ice, and engaged in inappropriate journalism as more interested in pure personal attacks on Assange than to appear serious. / Fredrik 214 recs pm that one!

And another:


Michael Kaustinen · Subscribe · Top Commentator · Centralized Technical Support Agent at IBM

It's fascinating how hard Aftonbladet angles on this story. Nobody mentions the fact that Assagne voluntarily entered the police station as soon as notification was and offered to be questioned, but then he got a no. When he came here so called, he then suddenly internationally. Then he invited the prosecutor to question him in London, which was denied for unknown reasons. This framstårsom increasingly sunkigt the more you dig into it. Yet mention Aftonbladet nothing about these incredibly important facts.

One more:

Sean Mert · Top Commentator · Employer: The NASDAQ OMX Group
"... The government approves a disclosure to the U.S., which he fears, is unlikely. Injury for Sweden's international diplomatic reputation would be too great ..."

Oisin, you might have missed the fact that Sweden has previously disclosed the people to the U.S. intelligence services?


After it was discovered that the Swedish government runs the U.S. cases so you should probably be careful not to rely on Swedish "insurance"
http://falkvinge.net/2010/12/25/det-kom-en-julklapp/

I understand why Assange is afraid to be passed out to the U.S., it's happened before and will happen again. If Assange trust Sweden, so the risk is great that he disclosed to the U.S., it is clear. And as everyone knows, so doing the United States with torture and other things which are against international law. Assange will get this treatment, almost certainly because Sweden will be subject to U.S.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=23494

Oisin, I think you should read some more about what actually happened, and not soar high in the sky, wearing rose-colored glasses?
Answers · 92 · Like · · Follow the post Yesterday at. 09:50


Maybe you shouldn't have posted this article after all, although I am happy to read the opinions of the Swedish people. Looks like they pretty much know what's really going on. Good for them. Big failure by the author apparently.





.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:26 PM

71. Thank you! For some reason, Google Translate wouldn't translate the comments for me. n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #71)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:30 PM

73. I found a good site. Some of them don't translate very well or not at all.

If you want to have some fun, this is a good translation site. Actually it is a google site, but it worked for me so I hope it works for you:

http://translate.google.com/#sv/en/.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #73)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:16 AM

106. The following Swedish-English dictionary was recommended to me

http://tyda.se/ Between a dictionary, an online translator, and a rough grasp of grammar, I think you can get pretty close.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:50 PM

78. I keep wondering

If the endgame is to send Assange to the US, why don't the British send Assange directly to the US when they catch him? Why put Sweden in the middle? It doesn't make sense.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #78)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:12 AM

80. They can't. There are no requests from the US for extradition, yet.

To ask to extradite someone you have to have a crime to base the request on.

The US has a Grand Jury working on finding a crime, but so far, they haven't come up with an indictment.

Sweden's request is based on 'we want to question him relating to allegations' of a crime. Even that is a pretty weak basis for a request for extradition, especially the lengths to which they all gone to accomplish it. But they do have a basis for their request.

Then there are conditions under which European countries will not grant requests for extradition. Eg, they must have an assurance that the individual will not be tortured or face the death penalty and will receive humane and fair treatment. Since several top US officials HAVE called for the death penalty in Assange's case, and even the VP has called him a 'terrorist' which has huge implications in this country, getting him extradited to the US should present a lot of problems even with a GJ indictment.

I think the goal to silence him is being accomplished right now, and gives the US time to work on getting an indictment. Plus there was the CIA memo published by Wikileaks stating that the best way to smear him would be to get him involved in 'sex charges'.

So people can draw their own conclusions. It is unprecedented to see this kind of effort to extradite someone just for questioning in a case where no charges have been filed.

Also, Sweden has already cooperated in handing over, or 'renditioning' two of their citizens to the US, who ended up being tortured. So they are not to be trusted regarding following the extradition laws regarding ensuring humane treatment for the accused. Assange is right to fear going to Sweden.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:05 AM

79. People are unaware the OP is a QUOTE, I guess

I find adding something after a link when I vehemently disagree with what I've posted from another source and why is a big help in not getting blamed for some writer's idiocy.

Yeah, most of us know the whole thing is a "shut him up FAST" political smear job that the Swedes were pressured into pursuing.

It's a very dangerous business to embarrass bureaucrats.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:35 AM

107. You have to have done something extremely right to get that many high-level bastards against you.

 

BRAVO, Julian!

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Response to Warpy (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:27 AM

128. It is Swedish equivalent

 

to crap from a US right wing bundit. Publishing of which, to my understanding, is not kosher on DU.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

4. Assange is a Hero.

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:34 PM

49. A hero to some....

Personally, I have mixed feelings about him.

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Response to PragmaticLiberal (Reply #49)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 08:02 PM

162. He's done a tremendous amount of good for the world at incredible personal cost.

I'd say that qualifies as hero.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:46 PM

5. He who fights and runs away...etc n/t

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:49 AM

108. Lives to fight another day!

Especially when he determines that the odds are against him.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

6. Laughable Sweden's the coward, too cowardly to stand up to the US and issue a non extradition treaty

This is becoming unhinged. Sweden, or the US, simply have to issues a non-extradition treaty and Assange is there for questioning, he's said as much.

Of course, this is really about Wikileaks. Even more so it exposes the misogyny of the Swedes. My heart just breaks for real rape victims who often wait (forever) for justice, especially in Sweden where rape prosecutions are the worst stats in all the EU.

This political stunt is hideous, especially in its treatment of women. Especially the women involved in the Assange case, who've been told by their paternalistic state that they don't really know that they've been "raped"! And that despite the women's adamant desire to NOT press charges, the paternalistic state believes it can supersede the wishes of its own citizens and advance the case FOR them). I can't even imagine being the women involved - if this ever comes to a resolution in Sweden they will be forced to become hostile witnesses (if they can be found. One of them has fled the country and vows to not return) detailing their sex with Assange?!

Ick. Just completely patriarchal and disgusting. I'd bet a million dollars that virtually all of the posters and prosecutors pressing this "rape" case going forward are all despicable, sexist, voyeuristic.

USING women as political pawns, again. So trite, so misogynistic. Disgusting.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:12 PM

62. How do you "issue a non-extradition treaty"?

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:58 AM

140. All Sweden has to do is say they won't allow Assange to be extradited to the U.S.

Seems they're too chickenshit to do that.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #140)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:23 PM

143. And why should Sweden defy international law and piss off the US for...

this guy? Is he some great human rights activist held in jail or kidnapped for years with the world calling for his release? Anyone making grand speeches at the UN for him?

Since the whole point of the bullshit sex charges is to get the guy to Sweden so he can be turned over to the US, they're not growing the pair you want them to any time soon.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #143)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:39 PM

145. If Sweden was following its old precedents

y'know, before it helped rendition people for the Bush Administration, it has more than enough legal right to say "We will not extradite a person to a country where he may face the death penalty, or a politically motivated prosecution."

But, it doesn't look like Sweden's gonna do that, so Assange is well within his rights to go somewhere where he can find justice. Like Equador.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #145)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:58 PM

148. Assange is threatened with the death penalty now? And the prosecution is...

not entirely politically motivated. Most nations are aghast at the thought that someone could just dump a huge cache of their classified and private documents. Or sell them, as the case may be. Assange seems not to be viewed as the the hero who dropped the Pentagon Papers, but as just another crook in the international information trade.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #148)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:01 PM

149. There's that grand-jury investigation in the U.S.

Of course, we don't know if there's an indictment or not, because if there is one, it's under seal. I think it's pretty safe to say that's one of the U.S.'s hole cards right now.

I can reasonably guess that in that sealed indictment, Assange would likely be charged under the Espionage Act, which carries the death penalty.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:28 PM

153. And when was that last used? Even Manning wasn't seriously threatened...

with death, and releasing classified military documents in wartime is considered treason in most places.

Most times, prosecutors take death off the table in order to get extradition, anyway. (There was, however, that case where some asshole refused to take it off the table and an indicted murderer was happily roaming France thanks to prosecutorial idiocy.)




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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #153)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:34 AM

180. Ira Einhorn. The prosecutor finally took death off the table, and the guy ran it up the flagpole

in France, ran out of options, and was taken into custody on AMERICA's MOST WANTED.

He didn't 'happily roam' much, though--the French police were up his ass constantly. Of course, he blamed the CIA for the murder of his girlfriend when they finally got him back to USA. It didn't fly.

Smug little asshole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn

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Response to MADem (Reply #180)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:35 AM

182. That's him. He did bounce around for 20 years before...

they caught up with him. I kinda vaguely remember the doings at the time.

Amazing how this bastid managed to finagle damn near everyone from Arlen Specter to Eurotrash and bag millions in defense money.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #182)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:47 AM

183. He used the old "Say it forcefully enough, and people will believe you" schtick.

That heady mixture of arrogance, audacity and hurt feelings--it never fails to woo some!

Anyone with a nose for bullshit and megalomania could see him coming a mile away, but I am always surprised, no matter how times I see such scenarios repeated, at how many people can't smell that shit coming on any given day!

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #143)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:40 PM

197. Is it defying international law when they refuse to extradite capital cases?

No, so it's ludicrous to think that it would be defying international law by saying they wouldn't extradite a man who currently has no charges against him in the U.S..

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Response to EOTE (Reply #197)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:07 PM

199. Not true-- as long as there are no capital charges they are still...

required to extradite.

There are other angles, exceptions, and whatevers better known to lawyers who specialize in this sort of thing, but the Swedes see no reason not to extradite, so you and anyone else can complain all you want but it's entirely their decision how to interpret the treaty.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #199)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:15 PM

203. Please cite this law.

I'm fairly certain it does not exist. Sweden and other countries won't extradite in capital charges because they believe the DP is abhorrent, not because of any law. And of course it's their decision (no one ever said that it wasn't), but it's quite clear they're making this decision because they want the ability to extradite to the U.S. Just like it's Assange's decision to not go back to Sweden, a country which has a terrible record regarding rendition, when they won't provide him with any assurance. It's their decision and it's quite clear why they've made that decision.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #203)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:09 PM

204. I'll cite nothing-- I'm not a lawyer. But, this is not a law, it's...

a treaty, although I still won't cite anything. And there is no worldwide treaty -- each agreement between two nations has its own special provisions and conditions which are often subject to negotiation in high profile cases.


Generally, it's my layman's understanding that a country is obligated to extradite whne the terms of the treaty are met and the holding country has no specific and acceptable objections to extradition.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #204)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:53 PM

205. So you're pulling this out of your ass?

It is well known that countries are able to decide on their own whether to comply for a request for extradition. In countries where there is no DP, it is common practice not to extradite in cases where the DP would apply. There is nothing that says that Sweden can't provide assurance that Assange wouldn't be extradited, nothing. Sweden has done some horrific things on behalf of the U.S., there's no reason to believe they wouldn't continue in that tradition now.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #205)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:58 PM

206. Who's pulling what out of an ass? Not you, of course...

because I have no idea what you're getting at.

Treaties tend to require both countries to have the same law, which was why Canada once wouldn't send draft dodgers back to the US since Canada didn't have a draft. But, everything is up to negotiation and one country can't necessarily just unilaterally decide what to do.

The point here is that everybody believes Sweden intends to extradite him when they get their hands on him. I don't know the details, you don't know the details, nobody posting here knows the details, but some day, somehow, the plan is he's coming here.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

7. I am not a fan of Assange but these attacks on him are becoming comical.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:15 PM

36. I know - they're beyond absurd! n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

8. we get that you despise him--is this latest screed for the newbies?

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Response to niyad (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

11. It's Swedish opinion. We know what Ecuador and the UK think. Let's hear from Sweden

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

19. Let's hear from the women who claim they were NOT raped

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:58 PM

31. I give you the one and only interview they did....which weirdly enough is hard to find translated

into english for us...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab


It was published in Swedish and has been virtually ignored by western media. Here's a snippet from the article

"One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: “It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him.”

Speaking anonymously, she said each had had voluntary relations with Assange: “The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who had attitude problems with women.”

Sources close to the woman said that issues arose during the relationships about Assange’s willingness to use condoms."

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:08 PM

35. Ooo, great link! You won't mind it I quote from it, I'm sure:

30-year-old woman: I was subjected to abuse

... The woman dismisses the conspiracy theories that are flooding the web right now:

- "The charges against Assange are, of course, not orchestrated by either the Pentagon or anybody else. The responsibility, for what happened to me and the other girl, lies with a man with a warped view of womanhood and inability to take no for an answer."


30-åriga kvinnan: Jag utsattes för övergrepp
... De konspirationsteorier som översvämmar nätet just nu avfärdar kvinnan i 30-årsålden bestämt.

– Anklagelserna mot Assange är förstås inte iscensatta av varken Pentagon eller någon annan. Ansvaret för det som hänt mig och den andra tjejen ligger hos en man med skev kvinnosyn och problem att ta ett nej.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab


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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:17 PM

37. Go nuts. I'm only interested in the women from the Assange case

because anything else is just Faux noise....

I want THEIR words. You can take and twist anyone else's. Feel free. You just aren't allowed to denigrate the women in this case, use them as political pawns, and run over them without being called on the patriarchy, misogyny or paternalism.

The women themselves say there's no rape. Instead the state is deciding for them what they should be thinking, feeling and doing.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

38. I'm using your link, which indicates it's one of the women involved who is quoted there

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

41. Yes, who states it wasn't rape. "Voluntary relations" is pretty explicit nt

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

52. So maybe Assange will be back out of the hands of the Swedish police soon after surrendering to them

It's not for me to try the criminal allegations on the internet

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:41 AM

113. The situation at least one woman described is clearly rape by Swedish law.

She woke up with him on top of her. He held her down and penetrated her while not using a condom, even though she'd already told him she wouldn't have sex without one. Her consent was conditional; he violated the condition; therefore she didn't consent.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:41 PM

172. Assange denies these allegations.

It should also be mentioned that the woman had just returned to the flat from purchasing breakfast and gotten back into bed with Assange, texting a friend that she was "half awake". By her own account, she did not ask Assange to put on a condom, but "jokingly" asserted that she hoped he did not have AIDS.

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #172)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:44 PM

190. Let him deny them in Sweden, where the allegations were made, and where he is wanted

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #190)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:50 PM

192. Sure he will, Sweden just has to give him an assurance they won't extradite him to the US. Simple nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:48 PM

173. Funny that she didn't say anything like that when she invited him to stay with her

three days after this supposedly happened, and told all of her friends what an interesting time she was having. She was busy arranging a clam party for 'Julian because he said that is what he would like'.

These allegations only surfaced months later when the loony attorney who believes all men are guilty when one of them rapes a woman, got involved. He also believes that a woman doesn't know when she's been raped and even if she denies it, as these women have, she should not be trusted to make that decision.

He is also responsible, by his own admission, for forcing the reopening of the case after the first prosecutor stated there was no case.

Additionally, in case anyone thinks the accused has any rights, Assange vehemently denies these allegations. But if you believe all men are automatically guilty, as this wacko attorney and his political friends do, then of course, Assange has no right to deny it, whether it is true or not.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)


Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:43 PM

198. "The other woman wanted to report rape. I gave my testimony to support her story"

– Den andra kvinnan ville anmäla för våldtäkt. Jag gav min berättelse som vittnesmål till hennes berättelse och för att stötta henne.
30-åriga kvinnan: Jag utsattes för övergrepp
Berättar om anklagelserna mot Wikileaks grundare Julian Assange

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

45. Self-delete

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)

That's what Sweden thinks.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:47 PM

57. Damn. I may just have to guzzle down some mead and set sail for England

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Response to leveymg (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:52 AM

184. "I would say go to hell, but you probably would not want to?" Do I have that translation right?

I'm not a Swedish speaker...

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Response to MADem (Reply #184)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:58 AM

185. A bit more earthy than that. I apologize.

Something that's considered anatomically impossible.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:31 AM

129. It is Swedish opinion

 

in the same way as Rush Limbaugh is US opinion. It's not journalism, it's hate speech.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

9. Whatever your thing is with Julian Assange is just down right creepy. What is

it? Did he use to take your lunch money, bang your girlfriend, what?

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #9)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:49 PM

10. Yeah..

... right. Keep posting the right wing bullshit.

Assange is not afraid of Sweden, he is afraid of the US.

I wish he would show just how big a 'coward' he is and dump everything he has got. They are going to get him anyway.

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Response to sendero (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

22. i pray they never get their hands on him..he deserves the right to do what he does

expose truth whether we like it or not..

who has time to write 65000 posts?..I've been here 8 years ....65000 posts?..come on

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:24 PM

68. Do you ask those questions of DUers with far more posts?

And have your point of view? Hmmm....

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Response to former9thward (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:44 PM

77. Most DUers with far more posts

have been here for many more years. And yes, those who have only been here a short time and have thousands of posts - I do wonder about them and I'm probably not the only one. I've been here since 2004 and am just now closing in on 3000 despite spending most of my computer time here on this site. I really don't get how people have time to rack up those numbers unless they are retired or paid.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #77)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:30 AM

85. I don't get it either, I have been here over eight years, but lack the HUGE spam count

There are some that are writers and as such post many many pieces as their work as a writer can be transferred here for the benefit of the DU audience, those people I get, The spammers? how to they get so many posts in in so little time? Some may do it for a living perhaps, AstroTurf is big business, but I would like to think the astro-turfers are a smaller portion here, not the larger, wishful thinking perhaps.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #77)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:29 PM

195. I see people knocking posters for having just a few posts.

And they don't share their opinion. Now they are knocking people who have a bunch of posts and don't share their opinion. Maybe try knocking content once and awhile.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #195)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:08 PM

202. I can multitask. nt

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:34 AM

87. I got many of those posts serving as a DU2 moderator: sometimes as moderator I'd have 200 posts/day

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #87)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:04 PM

167. And the rest you got by spammng

DU -- starting 20 threads when one would be sufficient. Hell, I've been here 11 years and don't even have 13,000 posts. But then again, I don't have to keep beating the same dead horse XX,XXX times either. And I stand by my earlier accusation about you as well. That whole doe-eyed "who me?" shit doesn't fly and the more you post the more people see through you.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

13. I think we know who the real coward is. And a non-thinker as well.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

14. What a strange post.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

18. This poster has been all over DU trying to tear this man down and

pretty much ignoring facts and posting accusations that don't have merit. That's why it seems strange to you.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:42 PM

54. He's been waging an amazingly persistent campaign. The posts keep coming!

Makes me wonder what motivates him.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:44 PM

55. I asked him and he hasn't answered. n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

15. You really have it in for him.

You already know he would go to Sweden if they assured him he would not be turned over the states. You know that the Americans have planned that. The memos and cat so to speak are out of the bag. So why do you keep beating this drum. What is your personal problem with him?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

16. Who cares if Assange is courageous?

I don't care if he's courageous, a good cook, speaks Japanese etc. What I care about is that he tries to reveal the evil people hide.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

17. Please show me on this doll where Julian Assange touched you

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

23. Oh. My. Gawd!! Best laugh I've had all day

And as a rape crisis counselor and advocate, I don't mean that lightly.



(or maybe I'm drunk but this has been a helluvaday).


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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:56 PM

27. !

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

33. Genuinely LOL!

As in I'm literally laughing out loud.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:21 PM

39. This is a very deserving post. I'm waiting for an answer.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:52 AM

109. heh.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:53 PM

160. Ahahahahahahaha

Priceless!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

20. Heeheehee!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:55 PM

26. Another article from the Swedish FOX News...

This is nothing but a hit piece.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

32. If you read Swedish (and I do)

you will note that this article is a personal attack on Assange---one man's opinion.

As such, it isn't really useful to the debate/discussion concerning the very real possibility that Assange would be treated no better ( and very probably much worse) than Bradley Manning.

And the comments under this opinion piece accuse the author of a personal vendetta...and criticize the Swedish government as a henchman of the USA, willing to do the dirty work.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:00 PM

34. All I've been getting is the Google Translate version of the article.

So you probably have a better idea of it than I do, but my impression was the same - this was nothing but a vicious hit piece. A slimy piece of yellow journalism. It's comforting to know that this shit isn't unique to the U.S. media.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:47 AM

117. Given the unkind stereotypes of Sweden circulated here by Assange supporters, I thought it fair

to provide a contrary Swedish view

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #117)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:13 AM

125. Stereotypes, or facts?

I'm not Swedish, but I married one, met the whole family, lived there....

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Fascism that article promotes has no nationality.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #125)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

130. I suppose some people might regard it as a clarion call for fascism, if one wrote an article saying

that the charges against Assange in Sweden seemed weak and that Assange therefore seemed somewhat of a chickenshit for not just trotting over to Sweden to fight the charges

Have you had a chance to search carefully through the Sponge Bob Squarepants cartoons for the sublimal pro-fascist messages there?

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