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Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:41 PM

Assange turned out to be a coward

The man who became world famous for his fight for freedom of expression would rather settle in a country where independent television stations are closed and critical journalists imprisoned, than allow himself to be questioned by Swedish police ...

What if Assange instead had backbone enough to get on a flight to Stockholm? The hearing, of course. It does not seem unbelievable that the investigation might then be thrown in the trash. Given that prosecutors had dropped it and taken it up again, the evidence certainly may not be optimal ...

The truth is that Julian Assange is talking shit about the reasons to escape the Swedish justice. He has proven to be a completely different person, than the heroic fighter for freedom he pretends to be.

Maybe he just could not manage his worldwide fame, and it turned him into a conspiracy theorist, of the sort that might as well spend his days brooding over why Obama refuses to recognize why Elvis lives, as wonder how he could get to Ecuador ...

Assange visade sig vara ett fegt kräk
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/oisincantwell/article15270151.ab

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Reply Assange turned out to be a coward (Original post)
struggle4progress Aug 2012 OP
WillyT Aug 2012 #1
xiamiam Aug 2012 #12
HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #21
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #25
Zorra Aug 2012 #44
WillyT Aug 2012 #91
Tess49 Aug 2012 #181
Zalatix Aug 2012 #110
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #119
Matariki Aug 2012 #135
Nostradammit Aug 2012 #201
HERVEPA Aug 2012 #2
joeybee12 Aug 2012 #3
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #29
Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #48
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #51
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #101
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #116
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #118
progressoid Aug 2012 #209
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #60
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #71
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #73
eridani Aug 2012 #106
creeksneakers2 Aug 2012 #78
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #80
Warpy Aug 2012 #79
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2012 #107
tama Aug 2012 #128
Vox Moi Aug 2012 #4
PragmaticLiberal Aug 2012 #49
20score Aug 2012 #162
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #5
mazzarro Aug 2012 #108
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #6
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #62
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #140
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #143
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #145
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #148
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #149
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #153
MADem Aug 2012 #180
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #182
MADem Aug 2012 #183
EOTE Aug 2012 #197
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #199
EOTE Aug 2012 #203
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #204
EOTE Aug 2012 #205
TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #206
grantcart Aug 2012 #7
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #36
niyad Aug 2012 #8
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #11
MNBrewer Aug 2012 #19
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #31
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #35
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #37
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #38
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #41
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #52
pnwmom Aug 2012 #113
girl gone mad Aug 2012 #172
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #190
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #192
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #173
LadyHawkAZ Aug 2012 #103
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #198
HooptieWagon Aug 2012 #30
leveymg Aug 2012 #45
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #57
MADem Aug 2012 #184
leveymg Aug 2012 #185
tama Aug 2012 #129
Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2012 #9
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #28
sendero Aug 2012 #10
xiamiam Aug 2012 #22
former9thward Aug 2012 #68
laundry_queen Aug 2012 #77
Dragonfli Aug 2012 #85
former9thward Aug 2012 #195
laundry_queen Aug 2012 #202
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #87
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #167
russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #13
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #14
Cleita Aug 2012 #18
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #54
Cleita Aug 2012 #55
Cleita Aug 2012 #15
Cicada Aug 2012 #16
Electric Monk Aug 2012 #17
riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #23
LineLineReply !
graywarrior Aug 2012 #27
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #33
Auntie Bush Aug 2012 #39
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2012 #109
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #160
Luminous Animal Aug 2012 #20
lordsummerisle Aug 2012 #24
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #26
Demeter Aug 2012 #32
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #34
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #117
Demeter Aug 2012 #125
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #130
tama Aug 2012 #131
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #141
tama Aug 2012 #147
frylock Aug 2012 #154
progressoid Aug 2012 #210
Marrah_G Aug 2012 #40
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #42
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #63
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #43
msongs Aug 2012 #46
Gregorian Aug 2012 #47
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #53
tama Aug 2012 #134
SidDithers Aug 2012 #50
Cha Aug 2012 #67
Bonobo Aug 2012 #89
Owl Aug 2012 #56
hifiguy Aug 2012 #61
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #64
bhikkhu Aug 2012 #58
Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #59
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2012 #65
Cha Aug 2012 #70
sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #75
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #124
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #138
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #142
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #146
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #156
ronnie624 Aug 2012 #105
Capt. Obvious Aug 2012 #123
Matilda Aug 2012 #66
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #76
The Magistrate Aug 2012 #102
Incitatus Aug 2012 #69
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #72
Incitatus Aug 2012 #74
Hydra Aug 2012 #81
Incitatus Aug 2012 #82
Marr Aug 2012 #83
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #86
Bonobo Aug 2012 #88
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #92
Pharaoh Aug 2012 #115
uncle ray Aug 2012 #93
RZM Aug 2012 #94
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #97
RZM Aug 2012 #99
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #120
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #126
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #90
Bonobo Aug 2012 #95
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #96
Bonobo Aug 2012 #98
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #114
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #133
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #139
Incitatus Aug 2012 #84
polly7 Aug 2012 #100
cyclezealot Aug 2012 #104
Zalatix Aug 2012 #112
cali Aug 2012 #111
cyclezealot Aug 2012 #121
OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #122
treestar Aug 2012 #127
hobbit709 Aug 2012 #132
treestar Aug 2012 #158
tama Aug 2012 #166
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #168
hobbit709 Aug 2012 #171
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #163
KansDem Aug 2012 #136
Matariki Aug 2012 #137
Alduin Aug 2012 #144
yurbud Aug 2012 #150
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #155
yurbud Aug 2012 #151
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #178
yurbud Aug 2012 #207
djean111 Aug 2012 #152
Taverner Aug 2012 #157
Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #159
20score Aug 2012 #161
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #179
Zorra Aug 2012 #193
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #194
Zorra Aug 2012 #196
Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #164
HangOnKids Aug 2012 #200
tama Aug 2012 #165
sibelian Aug 2012 #169
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #174
Zorro Aug 2012 #170
Zorra Aug 2012 #191
Octafish Aug 2012 #175
Overseas Aug 2012 #187
brush Aug 2012 #176
struggle4progress Aug 2012 #177
TroglodyteScholar Aug 2012 #186
H2O Man Aug 2012 #188
Overseas Aug 2012 #189
Erose999 Aug 2012 #208

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:43 PM

1. Are You Paid By The Word, The Post, Or The Opinion ???

struggle4progress

My Ass.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

12. ooh willy, +100000000000

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

21. However... but he is being paid.

Only question is by who?

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

25. Now, now, it's against DU rules to accuse other DUers of astroturfing...

even if the accusations are true.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

44. Bwahaahaa! Darlin'...you have done won my heart forever.



To WillyT!





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Response to Zorra (Reply #44)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:39 AM

91. Bring A Nickel, Tap Yo Feet...





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Response to Zorra (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:16 AM

181. Love this! n/t

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:15 AM

110. Gotta go with you on that one.

 

When it's me looking at the choice between being a political prisoner or fleeing to some place where I won't go to jail... who knows? I can't judge.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:52 AM

119. + whatever is the most plus possible.

This one's obsession is odd, really odd.

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:50 AM

135. lol

it's so predictable, isn't it?

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Response to WillyT (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:34 PM

201. Dude has averaged 22 posts a day for 8.5 years.

He's served on a jury 147 times, which must mean he is on here constantly.

Good work if you can get it.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:44 PM

2. Yeh, keep ignoring the possibility of his being sent to America.

You just never give up, do you. Schmuck.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

3. 65,000+ posts?????

Is this apologist dribble the best you can come up with?

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

29. You aren't interested in what the Swedes are saying in response to all the accusations

Last edited Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:37 PM - Edit history (2)

that they're lackeys of the Americans and their women fuck whoever the CIA asks them to fuck?

Whatever happened to the reality-based community?



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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:32 PM

48. I remember when the vast majority of U.S. citizens believed that Al Gore invented the internet.

Thank you right wing media.

All you have. All you post is Swedish right wing propaganda. You can count on the overall ignorance of both the left and right in the U.S. of European media.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:36 PM

51. The point of view doesn't seem very rightwing to me: the author doesn't believe Assange

has much to fear and seems to think the Swedish matter might be dismissed pretty quickly

But he doesn't like Assange. That seems to be blasphemous in some circles

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #51)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:36 AM

101. It's more than "the author doesn't like Assange."

The article is written in such a way to persuade the reader to dislike Assange as well.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #101)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:45 AM

116. Eeek! It's an attempt at persuasion! *hand-wringing*

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #116)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:54 AM

118. Very good, you identified the intent

Now, the question is, what is the author's agenda? WHY is the author trying to persuade you to dislike Assange? With such invective no less! A chicken-shit heel! Tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist!

Of course, the easy answer is that the source you're citing happens to be a shit tabloid with a shitty record of shit journalism (even by tabloid standards.)

Can we look forward to this being a regular feature from you? because if you're not going to provide cruller recipes I'd just love to read more about Robinson-Robbie's apparent comeback, or how Lisa Högberg (28; mother of two) lost 13 kg thanks to a new fad diet - all in three paragraphs or less!

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #118)

Wed Aug 22, 2012, 03:42 PM

209. +1

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:56 PM

60. Read the comments if you want to know what the Swedish people think I just did:

The idiot who wrote the article appears to be getting trashed. Just a few samples so far:


Fredrik Karlsson · Helsingborg, Sweden

You can think what you will about Assange's behavior. But I think Aftonbladet are on extremely thin ice, and engaged in inappropriate journalism as more interested in pure personal attacks on Assange than to appear serious. / Fredrik 214 recs pm that one!

And another:


Michael Kaustinen · Subscribe · Top Commentator · Centralized Technical Support Agent at IBM

It's fascinating how hard Aftonbladet angles on this story. Nobody mentions the fact that Assagne voluntarily entered the police station as soon as notification was and offered to be questioned, but then he got a no. When he came here so called, he then suddenly internationally. Then he invited the prosecutor to question him in London, which was denied for unknown reasons. This framstårsom increasingly sunkigt the more you dig into it. Yet mention Aftonbladet nothing about these incredibly important facts.

One more:

Sean Mert · Top Commentator · Employer: The NASDAQ OMX Group
"... The government approves a disclosure to the U.S., which he fears, is unlikely. Injury for Sweden's international diplomatic reputation would be too great ..."

Oisin, you might have missed the fact that Sweden has previously disclosed the people to the U.S. intelligence services?


After it was discovered that the Swedish government runs the U.S. cases so you should probably be careful not to rely on Swedish "insurance"
http://falkvinge.net/2010/12/25/det-kom-en-julklapp/

I understand why Assange is afraid to be passed out to the U.S., it's happened before and will happen again. If Assange trust Sweden, so the risk is great that he disclosed to the U.S., it is clear. And as everyone knows, so doing the United States with torture and other things which are against international law. Assange will get this treatment, almost certainly because Sweden will be subject to U.S.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=23494

Oisin, I think you should read some more about what actually happened, and not soar high in the sky, wearing rose-colored glasses?
Answers · 92 · Like · · Follow the post Yesterday at. 09:50


Maybe you shouldn't have posted this article after all, although I am happy to read the opinions of the Swedish people. Looks like they pretty much know what's really going on. Good for them. Big failure by the author apparently.





.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:26 PM

71. Thank you! For some reason, Google Translate wouldn't translate the comments for me. n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #71)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:30 PM

73. I found a good site. Some of them don't translate very well or not at all.

If you want to have some fun, this is a good translation site. Actually it is a google site, but it worked for me so I hope it works for you:

http://translate.google.com/#sv/en/.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #73)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:16 AM

106. The following Swedish-English dictionary was recommended to me

http://tyda.se/ Between a dictionary, an online translator, and a rough grasp of grammar, I think you can get pretty close.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:50 PM

78. I keep wondering

If the endgame is to send Assange to the US, why don't the British send Assange directly to the US when they catch him? Why put Sweden in the middle? It doesn't make sense.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #78)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:12 AM

80. They can't. There are no requests from the US for extradition, yet.

To ask to extradite someone you have to have a crime to base the request on.

The US has a Grand Jury working on finding a crime, but so far, they haven't come up with an indictment.

Sweden's request is based on 'we want to question him relating to allegations' of a crime. Even that is a pretty weak basis for a request for extradition, especially the lengths to which they all gone to accomplish it. But they do have a basis for their request.

Then there are conditions under which European countries will not grant requests for extradition. Eg, they must have an assurance that the individual will not be tortured or face the death penalty and will receive humane and fair treatment. Since several top US officials HAVE called for the death penalty in Assange's case, and even the VP has called him a 'terrorist' which has huge implications in this country, getting him extradited to the US should present a lot of problems even with a GJ indictment.

I think the goal to silence him is being accomplished right now, and gives the US time to work on getting an indictment. Plus there was the CIA memo published by Wikileaks stating that the best way to smear him would be to get him involved in 'sex charges'.

So people can draw their own conclusions. It is unprecedented to see this kind of effort to extradite someone just for questioning in a case where no charges have been filed.

Also, Sweden has already cooperated in handing over, or 'renditioning' two of their citizens to the US, who ended up being tortured. So they are not to be trusted regarding following the extradition laws regarding ensuring humane treatment for the accused. Assange is right to fear going to Sweden.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #29)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:05 AM

79. People are unaware the OP is a QUOTE, I guess

I find adding something after a link when I vehemently disagree with what I've posted from another source and why is a big help in not getting blamed for some writer's idiocy.

Yeah, most of us know the whole thing is a "shut him up FAST" political smear job that the Swedes were pressured into pursuing.

It's a very dangerous business to embarrass bureaucrats.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:35 AM

107. You have to have done something extremely right to get that many high-level bastards against you.

 

BRAVO, Julian!

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Response to Warpy (Reply #79)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:27 AM

128. It is Swedish equivalent

 

to crap from a US right wing bundit. Publishing of which, to my understanding, is not kosher on DU.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

4. Assange is a Hero.

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:34 PM

49. A hero to some....

Personally, I have mixed feelings about him.

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Response to PragmaticLiberal (Reply #49)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 08:02 PM

162. He's done a tremendous amount of good for the world at incredible personal cost.

I'd say that qualifies as hero.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:46 PM

5. He who fights and runs away...etc n/t

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:49 AM

108. Lives to fight another day!

Especially when he determines that the odds are against him.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

6. Laughable Sweden's the coward, too cowardly to stand up to the US and issue a non extradition treaty

This is becoming unhinged. Sweden, or the US, simply have to issues a non-extradition treaty and Assange is there for questioning, he's said as much.

Of course, this is really about Wikileaks. Even more so it exposes the misogyny of the Swedes. My heart just breaks for real rape victims who often wait (forever) for justice, especially in Sweden where rape prosecutions are the worst stats in all the EU.

This political stunt is hideous, especially in its treatment of women. Especially the women involved in the Assange case, who've been told by their paternalistic state that they don't really know that they've been "raped"! And that despite the women's adamant desire to NOT press charges, the paternalistic state believes it can supersede the wishes of its own citizens and advance the case FOR them). I can't even imagine being the women involved - if this ever comes to a resolution in Sweden they will be forced to become hostile witnesses (if they can be found. One of them has fled the country and vows to not return) detailing their sex with Assange?!

Ick. Just completely patriarchal and disgusting. I'd bet a million dollars that virtually all of the posters and prosecutors pressing this "rape" case going forward are all despicable, sexist, voyeuristic.

USING women as political pawns, again. So trite, so misogynistic. Disgusting.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:12 PM

62. How do you "issue a non-extradition treaty"?

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #62)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:58 AM

140. All Sweden has to do is say they won't allow Assange to be extradited to the U.S.

Seems they're too chickenshit to do that.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #140)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:23 PM

143. And why should Sweden defy international law and piss off the US for...

this guy? Is he some great human rights activist held in jail or kidnapped for years with the world calling for his release? Anyone making grand speeches at the UN for him?

Since the whole point of the bullshit sex charges is to get the guy to Sweden so he can be turned over to the US, they're not growing the pair you want them to any time soon.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #143)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:39 PM

145. If Sweden was following its old precedents

y'know, before it helped rendition people for the Bush Administration, it has more than enough legal right to say "We will not extradite a person to a country where he may face the death penalty, or a politically motivated prosecution."

But, it doesn't look like Sweden's gonna do that, so Assange is well within his rights to go somewhere where he can find justice. Like Equador.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #145)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:58 PM

148. Assange is threatened with the death penalty now? And the prosecution is...

not entirely politically motivated. Most nations are aghast at the thought that someone could just dump a huge cache of their classified and private documents. Or sell them, as the case may be. Assange seems not to be viewed as the the hero who dropped the Pentagon Papers, but as just another crook in the international information trade.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #148)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:01 PM

149. There's that grand-jury investigation in the U.S.

Of course, we don't know if there's an indictment or not, because if there is one, it's under seal. I think it's pretty safe to say that's one of the U.S.'s hole cards right now.

I can reasonably guess that in that sealed indictment, Assange would likely be charged under the Espionage Act, which carries the death penalty.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #149)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:28 PM

153. And when was that last used? Even Manning wasn't seriously threatened...

with death, and releasing classified military documents in wartime is considered treason in most places.

Most times, prosecutors take death off the table in order to get extradition, anyway. (There was, however, that case where some asshole refused to take it off the table and an indicted murderer was happily roaming France thanks to prosecutorial idiocy.)




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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #153)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:34 AM

180. Ira Einhorn. The prosecutor finally took death off the table, and the guy ran it up the flagpole

in France, ran out of options, and was taken into custody on AMERICA's MOST WANTED.

He didn't 'happily roam' much, though--the French police were up his ass constantly. Of course, he blamed the CIA for the murder of his girlfriend when they finally got him back to USA. It didn't fly.

Smug little asshole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Einhorn

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Response to MADem (Reply #180)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:35 AM

182. That's him. He did bounce around for 20 years before...

they caught up with him. I kinda vaguely remember the doings at the time.

Amazing how this bastid managed to finagle damn near everyone from Arlen Specter to Eurotrash and bag millions in defense money.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #182)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:47 AM

183. He used the old "Say it forcefully enough, and people will believe you" schtick.

That heady mixture of arrogance, audacity and hurt feelings--it never fails to woo some!

Anyone with a nose for bullshit and megalomania could see him coming a mile away, but I am always surprised, no matter how times I see such scenarios repeated, at how many people can't smell that shit coming on any given day!

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #143)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:40 PM

197. Is it defying international law when they refuse to extradite capital cases?

No, so it's ludicrous to think that it would be defying international law by saying they wouldn't extradite a man who currently has no charges against him in the U.S..

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Response to EOTE (Reply #197)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:07 PM

199. Not true-- as long as there are no capital charges they are still...

required to extradite.

There are other angles, exceptions, and whatevers better known to lawyers who specialize in this sort of thing, but the Swedes see no reason not to extradite, so you and anyone else can complain all you want but it's entirely their decision how to interpret the treaty.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #199)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:15 PM

203. Please cite this law.

I'm fairly certain it does not exist. Sweden and other countries won't extradite in capital charges because they believe the DP is abhorrent, not because of any law. And of course it's their decision (no one ever said that it wasn't), but it's quite clear they're making this decision because they want the ability to extradite to the U.S. Just like it's Assange's decision to not go back to Sweden, a country which has a terrible record regarding rendition, when they won't provide him with any assurance. It's their decision and it's quite clear why they've made that decision.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #203)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:09 PM

204. I'll cite nothing-- I'm not a lawyer. But, this is not a law, it's...

a treaty, although I still won't cite anything. And there is no worldwide treaty -- each agreement between two nations has its own special provisions and conditions which are often subject to negotiation in high profile cases.


Generally, it's my layman's understanding that a country is obligated to extradite whne the terms of the treaty are met and the holding country has no specific and acceptable objections to extradition.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #204)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:53 PM

205. So you're pulling this out of your ass?

It is well known that countries are able to decide on their own whether to comply for a request for extradition. In countries where there is no DP, it is common practice not to extradite in cases where the DP would apply. There is nothing that says that Sweden can't provide assurance that Assange wouldn't be extradited, nothing. Sweden has done some horrific things on behalf of the U.S., there's no reason to believe they wouldn't continue in that tradition now.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #205)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 11:58 PM

206. Who's pulling what out of an ass? Not you, of course...

because I have no idea what you're getting at.

Treaties tend to require both countries to have the same law, which was why Canada once wouldn't send draft dodgers back to the US since Canada didn't have a draft. But, everything is up to negotiation and one country can't necessarily just unilaterally decide what to do.

The point here is that everybody believes Sweden intends to extradite him when they get their hands on him. I don't know the details, you don't know the details, nobody posting here knows the details, but some day, somehow, the plan is he's coming here.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

7. I am not a fan of Assange but these attacks on him are becoming comical.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:15 PM

36. I know - they're beyond absurd! n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

8. we get that you despise him--is this latest screed for the newbies?

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Response to niyad (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

11. It's Swedish opinion. We know what Ecuador and the UK think. Let's hear from Sweden

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

19. Let's hear from the women who claim they were NOT raped

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:58 PM

31. I give you the one and only interview they did....which weirdly enough is hard to find translated

into english for us...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab


It was published in Swedish and has been virtually ignored by western media. Here's a snippet from the article

"One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: “It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him.”

Speaking anonymously, she said each had had voluntary relations with Assange: “The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who had attitude problems with women.”

Sources close to the woman said that issues arose during the relationships about Assange’s willingness to use condoms."

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:08 PM

35. Ooo, great link! You won't mind it I quote from it, I'm sure:

30-year-old woman: I was subjected to abuse

... The woman dismisses the conspiracy theories that are flooding the web right now:

- "The charges against Assange are, of course, not orchestrated by either the Pentagon or anybody else. The responsibility, for what happened to me and the other girl, lies with a man with a warped view of womanhood and inability to take no for an answer."


30-åriga kvinnan: Jag utsattes för övergrepp
... De konspirationsteorier som översvämmar nätet just nu avfärdar kvinnan i 30-årsålden bestämt.

– Anklagelserna mot Assange är förstås inte iscensatta av varken Pentagon eller någon annan. Ansvaret för det som hänt mig och den andra tjejen ligger hos en man med skev kvinnosyn och problem att ta ett nej.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab


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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:17 PM

37. Go nuts. I'm only interested in the women from the Assange case

because anything else is just Faux noise....

I want THEIR words. You can take and twist anyone else's. Feel free. You just aren't allowed to denigrate the women in this case, use them as political pawns, and run over them without being called on the patriarchy, misogyny or paternalism.

The women themselves say there's no rape. Instead the state is deciding for them what they should be thinking, feeling and doing.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

38. I'm using your link, which indicates it's one of the women involved who is quoted there

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

41. Yes, who states it wasn't rape. "Voluntary relations" is pretty explicit nt

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

52. So maybe Assange will be back out of the hands of the Swedish police soon after surrendering to them

It's not for me to try the criminal allegations on the internet

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #37)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:41 AM

113. The situation at least one woman described is clearly rape by Swedish law.

She woke up with him on top of her. He held her down and penetrated her while not using a condom, even though she'd already told him she wouldn't have sex without one. Her consent was conditional; he violated the condition; therefore she didn't consent.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:41 PM

172. Assange denies these allegations.

It should also be mentioned that the woman had just returned to the flat from purchasing breakfast and gotten back into bed with Assange, texting a friend that she was "half awake". By her own account, she did not ask Assange to put on a condom, but "jokingly" asserted that she hoped he did not have AIDS.

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #172)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:44 PM

190. Let him deny them in Sweden, where the allegations were made, and where he is wanted

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #190)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:50 PM

192. Sure he will, Sweden just has to give him an assurance they won't extradite him to the US. Simple nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:48 PM

173. Funny that she didn't say anything like that when she invited him to stay with her

three days after this supposedly happened, and told all of her friends what an interesting time she was having. She was busy arranging a clam party for 'Julian because he said that is what he would like'.

These allegations only surfaced months later when the loony attorney who believes all men are guilty when one of them rapes a woman, got involved. He also believes that a woman doesn't know when she's been raped and even if she denies it, as these women have, she should not be trusted to make that decision.

He is also responsible, by his own admission, for forcing the reopening of the case after the first prosecutor stated there was no case.

Additionally, in case anyone thinks the accused has any rights, Assange vehemently denies these allegations. But if you believe all men are automatically guilty, as this wacko attorney and his political friends do, then of course, Assange has no right to deny it, whether it is true or not.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)


Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:43 PM

198. "The other woman wanted to report rape. I gave my testimony to support her story"

– Den andra kvinnan ville anmäla för våldtäkt. Jag gav min berättelse som vittnesmål till hennes berättelse och för att stötta henne.
30-åriga kvinnan: Jag utsattes för övergrepp
Berättar om anklagelserna mot Wikileaks grundare Julian Assange

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)


Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

45. Self-delete

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)

That's what Sweden thinks.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:47 PM

57. Damn. I may just have to guzzle down some mead and set sail for England

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Response to leveymg (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:52 AM

184. "I would say go to hell, but you probably would not want to?" Do I have that translation right?

I'm not a Swedish speaker...

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Response to MADem (Reply #184)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:58 AM

185. A bit more earthy than that. I apologize.

Something that's considered anatomically impossible.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:31 AM

129. It is Swedish opinion

 

in the same way as Rush Limbaugh is US opinion. It's not journalism, it's hate speech.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

9. Whatever your thing is with Julian Assange is just down right creepy. What is

it? Did he use to take your lunch money, bang your girlfriend, what?

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #9)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:49 PM

10. Yeah..

... right. Keep posting the right wing bullshit.

Assange is not afraid of Sweden, he is afraid of the US.

I wish he would show just how big a 'coward' he is and dump everything he has got. They are going to get him anyway.

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Response to sendero (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

22. i pray they never get their hands on him..he deserves the right to do what he does

expose truth whether we like it or not..

who has time to write 65000 posts?..I've been here 8 years ....65000 posts?..come on

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:24 PM

68. Do you ask those questions of DUers with far more posts?

And have your point of view? Hmmm....

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Response to former9thward (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:44 PM

77. Most DUers with far more posts

have been here for many more years. And yes, those who have only been here a short time and have thousands of posts - I do wonder about them and I'm probably not the only one. I've been here since 2004 and am just now closing in on 3000 despite spending most of my computer time here on this site. I really don't get how people have time to rack up those numbers unless they are retired or paid.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #77)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:30 AM

85. I don't get it either, I have been here over eight years, but lack the HUGE spam count

There are some that are writers and as such post many many pieces as their work as a writer can be transferred here for the benefit of the DU audience, those people I get, The spammers? how to they get so many posts in in so little time? Some may do it for a living perhaps, AstroTurf is big business, but I would like to think the astro-turfers are a smaller portion here, not the larger, wishful thinking perhaps.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #77)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:29 PM

195. I see people knocking posters for having just a few posts.

And they don't share their opinion. Now they are knocking people who have a bunch of posts and don't share their opinion. Maybe try knocking content once and awhile.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #195)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 03:08 PM

202. I can multitask. nt

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:34 AM

87. I got many of those posts serving as a DU2 moderator: sometimes as moderator I'd have 200 posts/day

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #87)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:04 PM

167. And the rest you got by spammng

DU -- starting 20 threads when one would be sufficient. Hell, I've been here 11 years and don't even have 13,000 posts. But then again, I don't have to keep beating the same dead horse XX,XXX times either. And I stand by my earlier accusation about you as well. That whole doe-eyed "who me?" shit doesn't fly and the more you post the more people see through you.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

13. I think we know who the real coward is. And a non-thinker as well.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

14. What a strange post.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

18. This poster has been all over DU trying to tear this man down and

pretty much ignoring facts and posting accusations that don't have merit. That's why it seems strange to you.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:42 PM

54. He's been waging an amazingly persistent campaign. The posts keep coming!

Makes me wonder what motivates him.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:44 PM

55. I asked him and he hasn't answered. n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

15. You really have it in for him.

You already know he would go to Sweden if they assured him he would not be turned over the states. You know that the Americans have planned that. The memos and cat so to speak are out of the bag. So why do you keep beating this drum. What is your personal problem with him?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

16. Who cares if Assange is courageous?

I don't care if he's courageous, a good cook, speaks Japanese etc. What I care about is that he tries to reveal the evil people hide.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:52 PM

17. Please show me on this doll where Julian Assange touched you

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

23. Oh. My. Gawd!! Best laugh I've had all day

And as a rape crisis counselor and advocate, I don't mean that lightly.



(or maybe I'm drunk but this has been a helluvaday).


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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:56 PM

27. !

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

33. Genuinely LOL!

As in I'm literally laughing out loud.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:21 PM

39. This is a very deserving post. I'm waiting for an answer.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:52 AM

109. heh.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:53 PM

160. Ahahahahahahaha

Priceless!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

20. Heeheehee!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:55 PM

26. Another article from the Swedish FOX News...

This is nothing but a hit piece.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

32. If you read Swedish (and I do)

you will note that this article is a personal attack on Assange---one man's opinion.

As such, it isn't really useful to the debate/discussion concerning the very real possibility that Assange would be treated no better ( and very probably much worse) than Bradley Manning.

And the comments under this opinion piece accuse the author of a personal vendetta...and criticize the Swedish government as a henchman of the USA, willing to do the dirty work.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:00 PM

34. All I've been getting is the Google Translate version of the article.

So you probably have a better idea of it than I do, but my impression was the same - this was nothing but a vicious hit piece. A slimy piece of yellow journalism. It's comforting to know that this shit isn't unique to the U.S. media.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:47 AM

117. Given the unkind stereotypes of Sweden circulated here by Assange supporters, I thought it fair

to provide a contrary Swedish view

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #117)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:13 AM

125. Stereotypes, or facts?

I'm not Swedish, but I married one, met the whole family, lived there....

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Fascism that article promotes has no nationality.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #125)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

130. I suppose some people might regard it as a clarion call for fascism, if one wrote an article saying

that the charges against Assange in Sweden seemed weak and that Assange therefore seemed somewhat of a chickenshit for not just trotting over to Sweden to fight the charges

Have you had a chance to search carefully through the Sponge Bob Squarepants cartoons for the sublimal pro-fascist messages there?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #117)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:41 AM

131. Not a good job then

 

because the view you provided only gives support to the unkind stereotypes. Comments to this trash piece are more helpfulf towards your stated cause.

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Response to tama (Reply #131)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:59 AM

141. A view often suggested here at DU is that the Swedish courts are merely prostitutes

for US foreign policy and that young Swedish women will fuck people on the instructions of the CIA in order to be able to cry rape whenever Karl Rove decides they should

The Swedes have certainly been offended by the versions of this bullshit coming recently from Ecuador: that's why they summoned the Ecuadorian ambassador for a chew-out

But I suppose I should not be surprised that the suggestion, that the charges against Assange might be weak and that Assange therefore is a twerp for not going to face them, seems gravely disproportionate to Assange's supporters -- who apparently believe their hero should not suffer even the mildest criticism

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #141)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:46 PM

147. Well

 

in terms of Drug policy, Sweden is the "prostitute" (to quote your word) of US and in many aspect worse than the master. Swedish drug policy is not based on facts and reality, but turned into collective hysteria, state religion and police state that does not tolerate differing views. And it is causing lots of unnecessary suffering.

Cooperation with CIA renditions and Rove connection to the ruling party have been mentioned enough times so I'm sure you are aware of them.

There are suspicions that one of the woman involved - with former CIA connections - may have been a honey trap, but of course we don't really know. That does not say anything general about Swedish women. It has been established that the many of the Swedish legal officials that have taken over the case have close connections to US, which has created reasonable suspicions over their motives and intentions.

Swedish legal system has been criticized in general - as it deserves - as well as the sexist and chauvinist man-hating branch of "feminism" that has become quite common in Sweden many of the Swedish officials involved in this case represent, starting from Minister of Justice.

I live in Finland, next to Sweden. I don't know what is your connection to Sweden, but you give the appearance that you are some how participant to Swedish national collective ego, which is very frail and touchy and currently even more unstable as usual.

***

I've seen that there are many DUers critical of Assange, for personal dislike and/or critical of his journalistic work, but count as "Assange's supporters" in the regard that they don't think that he deserves to end up tortured by US. And that as long as there is reasonable doubt that Sweden could turn him over to US custody and Sweden does not give guarantees otherwise, consider that Assange has every right to avoid Sweden and seek asylum in Ecuador, and that Ecuador's decision to grant asylum is humane and responsible. If that makes Sweden look bad, tough. Sweden makes it own bed and my advice is to get of the high horse, take a reality check and good look in the mirror.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #117)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:00 PM

154. seems the article only serves to reinforce those opinions..

this kinda backfired on you, didn't it?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #117)

Wed Aug 22, 2012, 03:45 PM

210. Contrary does not mean correct.

Rush offers contrary views. But I don't agree with him either.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

40. Now you have just become obnoxious and irritating

off to ignore you go.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:23 PM

42. It's more fun to harangue him!

The dogpile's just starting!

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:15 PM

63. as you wish

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:23 PM

43. Smear campaign FAIL. n/t

 

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

46. want to bet his flight would end up In Washington DC, NOT sweden lol nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:32 PM

47. If by "coward" they mean a smart chess player, then I agree. It's a fraudulent case.

Surrendering would be a waste of a good life. I'd have done the same thing.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:41 PM

53. Retreating in the face of overwhelming force isn't cowardice, it's good strategy.

It's pretty obvious that the "rape" case is a farce, and a fig-leaf for a hidden agenda. And it's also clear that if Assange gets taken to Sweden, he'll never breathe free air again, and chances are good he'll be "disappeared".

In the face of that threat, getting out of Dodge is smart.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #53)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:50 AM

134. Clear?

 

I can't say it's clear that Sweden would hand over Assange to US custody, with absolute certainty. But as long as there is reasonable doubt that it could happen, that's good enough reason not to go to Sweden.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:34 PM

50. DU rec...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:24 PM

67. ..

lol.

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Response to Cha (Reply #67)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:38 AM

89. A welcome confirmation, as always, that I am on the right side of the issue. nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:45 PM

56. Why are you so overtly obsessed with Assange? It's bordering on surreal.

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Response to Owl (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:58 PM

61. No shit, Owl. The OP is almost as obsessed with attacking him

as the spooks are with getting their hands on him and breaking out the waterboard.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:18 PM

64. I do wonder why the OP is so determined? n/t

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:48 PM

58. Hero or not, Assange is unlikely to get a fair trial

In the interest of human rights, if he can avoid it then good for him.

if in his situation, I would certainly chose to go to some welcoming country - however small - than face a kangaroo court and summary judgement. His crime is ruffling some powerful feather simply by publishing their documents - pffft. They need to put their big-boy pants on and get over it already.

on edit - and maybe I have a conflict of interest. If Assange were somehow snatched and put on some kind of show-trial here, I would be painfully and permanently disappointed if Obama didn't intervene with a pardon, or order a dismissal. I'm not sure that he would.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:55 PM

59. The people afraid of the truth Assange has exposed are cowards... nt

 

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:20 PM

65. LEAVE JULIAN ALONE!!!!

He's a HEROOOOOOOOO!

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:25 PM

70. ..

right..

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:35 PM

75. Well in the opinions of a large segment of the World's population, he is.

Takes a lot of guts to publish inconvenient truths about small, brutal dictatorships, and big, powerful Empires. Neither are going to be too happy about it. That is why our own MSM refrain from doing it.

It's a pretty risky thing to do and watching the persecution of Assange, and statements from morons like Joe Lieberman asking for the NYT to be 'investigated' and Assange to be put to death for committing Journalism, we won't be seeing anyone in our media having the courage that Wikileaks has displayed any time soon.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #75)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:38 AM

124. It sure was thoughtful of Wikileaks to help the Belarusian government identify its opponents:

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #124)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:55 AM

138. Some of those articles are highly biased,

and none of them help you to rationalize your hatred of Julian Assange. They're mostly opinion pieces that are highly selective about presenting the facts, and tend to use belittling phraseology when referring to Assange, which makes me question their objectivity and their motives.

There doesn't seem to be much info available about Alexander Barankov. Clearly he isn't receiving the level of media attention that Assange is, though apparently, he is wanted by INTERPOL. The issue has not yet been resolved. It's difficult to draw any firm conclusions about it, but in my opinion, it's completely irrelevant anyway. The Wikileaks issue revolves around much larger and more important issues, like my government's obsession with secrecy and duplicity, and how it goes about violating international law when it murders journalists and supports the overthrow of democratically elected governments.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #138)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:19 PM

142. If Wikileaks were running a little private intelligence service on the side, selling information

that various people (like Brad Manning) have handed over for free, or trading the information to dictators (such as in Belarus) in return for favors or other considerations ...

why, then, it would simply be biased to point that out! it would be hateful! ...

because everybody knows dear! precious! Julian couldn't possibly be that attention-seeking or money-grubbing!

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #142)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:41 PM

146. Making those accusations is one thing,

supporting them with evidence is something else.

Your post makes you seem very shrill. I'm envisioning mussed hair and bloodshot eyes with dark circles, maybe a bit of drool at the corner of your mouth. Perhaps you need some sleep?

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #146)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:14 PM

156. I gave you a link to a thread with multiple links in it, tending to support that ugly possibility

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 03:08 AM

105. I don't think 'progressive' means what you think it does. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #105)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 09:38 AM

123. Heh!

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:21 PM

66. Oh yes, the Swedes, the ones who rolled over for the Nazis.

Now they're doing the same for the U.S.

Assange is quite right to fear that he would be handed over to the U.S. by the Swedes if they get half a chance. He'd be a fool if he wasn't afraid, and one thing he's not is a fool.

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Response to Matilda (Reply #66)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:36 PM

76. Sweden managed to maintain it's neutrality during both world wars and during the cold war

Swedish neutrality during WWII allowed the Danes to boatlift Danish Jews beyond Nazi reach when the Nazis wanted to deport them to concentration camps

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #76)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:43 AM

102. You Need To Get Out More, Sir

Swedish nickel and iron were essential to the Reich's war effort, and an entire Waffen SS division, 'Wiking', was recruited out of Sweden. Their 'neutrality' was practically alliance, and if they turned a bit towards the end, so did open allies like Finland and Romania and Hungary.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:24 PM

69. the 1% called

They sad thanks for your work.

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #69)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:27 PM

72. I'd speculate as to how they're expressing their gratitude...

but that would be against DU rules.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #72)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:35 PM

74. That's okay.

Most DUers are aware methods certain interests use.

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #69)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:39 AM

81. Without people to do the work for them

They'd just be a bunch of whiny Ayn Rand characters.

Funny to think of it that way, isn't it? Their schemes run on stupid.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:16 AM

83. Pathetic. I hope they don't pay you much.

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Response to Marr (Reply #83)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:32 AM

86. Fellow DU citizen, I must remind you that accusing people of being paid shills is a no-no.

DU rules specifically forbid you from accusing fellow posters of being shills, astroturfers, propagandizers, 50 Cent Party members or psy-ops personnel. Even if the accusations are true.

After all, we must all do our part to ensure that DU is a civilized place to have intelligent discussions about progressive politics and current events. Even when the non-existent shills are spamming the forums to try to drown our voices out.

Remember, astroturfers, paid shills and psy-ops don't exist on DU. That's a conspiracy theory. Enforceable by hiding of posts and potential PPR.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:37 AM

88. I have to agree.

Even if it were the case the poster is some kind of disgruntled, emotionally stunted twit with a personal axe to grind based on some perceived offense that would make most people laugh at its triviality, it would be inappropriate to come out and say it.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #88)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:40 AM

92. Exactly. It would be terrible form to hurl such insults, even when they're well-deserved.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #88)


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:01 AM

93. my understanding is that changed with DU3.

it's certainly not in the TOS.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:06 AM

94. LOL. 'Drown our voices out?'

 

Every thread about this is joined by a chorus of pro-Assange people. It's only a handful who condemn him. How on earth does that constitute voices being drowned out?

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Response to RZM (Reply #94)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:13 AM

97. Some people, who fancy themselves free-thinkers, cannot stand dissent

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #97)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:16 AM

99. Dissent or not, it's bizarre faux-persecution

 

It's a pro-Assange board and the threads on Assange show that. I don't care what somebody's positions on Assange are, but I get irritated when people play the persecution card on a board where they are the clear and well-heard majority.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:57 AM

120. What if it is true? We should just shut up?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #120)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:14 AM

126. According to the rules...

Just remember. Astroturfers, paid shills, and psy-ops operatives do not exist. They do not try to alter the course of discussion here on DU. Just ask them!

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Response to Marr (Reply #83)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:39 AM

90. If you don't like the opinion, you can complain to the Swedish newspaper that published it

As long as so many DUers are claiming that Sweden's prosecutors prostitute themselves to serve US foreign policy and that that Sweden's women prostitute themselves at the bidding of Karl Rove or the CIA, I thought it might be fair to expose DUers to an article or two on the hallucinatory accusations of dear! precious! Julian and his supporters from a Swedish point-of-view

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:07 AM

95. Just to let you know: You give away your bias so badly...

when you say:

"Dear precious Julian"

It is the moment when all pretense of being a clear, rational, logical thinker is thrown out the window in favor of appearing as a semi-hysterical, tooth-grinding, malicious, obsessed, foaming at the mouth, fire-breathing, mouth-breathing ranter.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #95)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:10 AM

96. It's thoughtful of you to say so, I suppose, but I'm not hiding my views

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #96)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:15 AM

98. Less a question of "views", more a question of "state of mind". nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 05:06 AM

114. it's not a "swedish" view, it's a "right-wing swedish" view. it's aftonbladt.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #114)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:47 AM

133. Aftonbladet is one of the older newspapers in Sweden. The history of the newspaper

is certainly not rightwing. It's owned by a labor group, and it supports the Social Democrats, who are still the largest party in the parliament, though their center-left coalition is currently the opposition there

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #133)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:56 AM

139. i know it belongs to a 'labor group'. i'm judging it on its behavior -- tabloid sensationalism,

 

anti-semitic reputation, published the 'muhammad' cartoons, etc.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:28 AM

100. I wish I could unrec. nt.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:48 AM

104. The US National Defense Authorization Act is not a conspiracy theory.

The US has the power and vengeance to go after anyone who tweaks its tail. It can do it to its citizens and foreign subjects.
. The US president has kingly powers and the next president might be a neo con. Be very afraid. That includes Assange. So why does not the Swedish government give assurance that it will not extradite Assange to the US as reports claim.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/us-in-pursuit-of-assange-cables-reveal-20120817-24e8u.html

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Response to cyclezealot (Reply #104)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:19 AM

112. I wouldn't be surprised if they sent a drone after Assange.

 

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 04:18 AM

111. Walking into a U.S. trap would be stupidity.

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Response to cali (Reply #111)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 08:31 AM

121. Should there be a Romney Attorney General Next year..

You can count on the fact Assange will face the death penalty.. embarrassing bankers and corrupt government officials requires a steep price to pay.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:15 AM

127. He's nuts

And if he had courage, he'd ask the US to bring it on, too.

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Response to treestar (Reply #127)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:41 AM

132. And your qualifications to make this diagnosis are?

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #132)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:47 PM

158. Common sense

He ought to be wiling to come to the US to face the charges.

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Response to treestar (Reply #158)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:43 PM

166. LOL

 

Under no circumstances should Assange come to US to satisfy your sadistic perversions. You really don't deserve that pleasure.

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Response to treestar (Reply #158)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:16 PM

168. What charges?

For the 286,563th time, there are NO CHARGES either from the U.S. or from Sweden. Oy vey! When "common sense" cannot be backed up by facts, it's no longer "common sense," it's an agenda.

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Response to treestar (Reply #158)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:39 PM

171. You don't get out much in the real world do you.

I've had way too much experience of what happens when someone in some kind of authority decides to get you for something.

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Response to treestar (Reply #127)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 08:03 PM

163. Asking the US authorities to "bring it on"

Is like flashing your ass to Mafia boss. You KNOW you're in for a hurtin'... so why do it?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:51 AM

136. Look what happens when very powerful people are exposed

I, for one, want to know what shit-stain deals my "elected officials" are doing in my name...

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:55 AM

137. FAIL for transparency of intent

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:27 PM

144. Fail.

 

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:13 PM

150. Assange offered to be questioned by Swedish authorities in the UK

From the Guardian:

We can infer that the Swedes have no legitimate reason for the extradition, since they were repeatedly offered the opportunity to question him in the UK, but rejected it, and have also refused to even put forth a reason for this refusal. A few weeks ago the Ecuadorian government offered to allow Assange to be questioned in its London embassy, where Assange has been residing since 19 June, but the Swedish government refused – again without offering a reason. This was an act of bad faith in the negotiating process that has taken place between governments to resolve the situation.

Former Stockholm chief district prosecutor Sven-Erik Alhem also made it clear that the Swedish government had no legitimate reason to seek Assange's extradition when he testified that the decision of the Swedish government to extradite Assange is "unreasonable and unprofessional, as well as unfair and disproportionate", because he could be easily questioned in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/16/julian-assange-asylum-ecuador


From BBC News:

18 November 2010

Mr Assange's British lawyer Mark Stephens says his client offered to be interviewed at the Swedish embassy in London or Scotland Yard or via video link. He accuses Ms Ny of "abusing her powers" in insisting that Mr Assange return to Sweden.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341

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Response to yurbud (Reply #150)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:11 PM

155. So what? Assange is wanted for a Swedish criminal process, at a stage that the UK courts have agreed

would correspond to commencement of prosecution in the UK. The point has been litigated, and Assange has lost the point in open court

The Swedes have, by now, good cause to be tired of Assange's games: they had been negotiating with his lawyer for an interview when he suddenly left the country on 27 Sep 10; they had negotiated an interview with him on his planned return in mid-Oct but he then declined to return; when he was arrested on warrant in the UK, he jumped bail after losing his suit

He seems to be the definitive twit

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:17 PM

151. if you can't win on the issues, turn to petty gossip and personal attacks

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Response to yurbud (Reply #151)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:21 AM

178. For example: accusing the Swedish women in this case of being extreme feminists or CIA agents.

Or accusing their lawyer of being a crackpot. Or accusing Sweden's justice system of being a false front for the US State Department

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #178)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 04:08 PM

207. so...Great Britain suddenly got religion on sex crimes and decided questioning suspects

from other countries is more important than respecting foreign embassies and consulates?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and has nothing to do with sex.

In this case, the effort expended to go after Assange makes it far more likely they want him for other reasons.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 01:25 PM

152. Perhaps I missed a point here or there....

but why would I care what Swedish people think about Assange?
That has as much relevance as my caring enough what freepers (who, um, live in the same country as me) think about Bradley Manning. Or anything, come to think about it.
Do all Swedes march in lock step?
Do Assange's problems with the U.S. have anything to do with what Swedish people think?
And why the constant and pointless attacks on Assange? To what purpose?

And, ya know, why wouldn't Sweden give assurances that they would not turn Assange over to the U.S.? Just saying that Assange has broken no American laws is useless blather. The fact that the subject was asked and answered seems weird, if it wasn't plausible.
It's not like Sweden turned down a request to not make Assange watch Faux news or eat grasshoppers. Extradition to the U.S. seems pretty specific.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:18 PM

157. Disagree. Unrec.

 

Hmmmm, Assange has a choice between (1) gitmo or (2) freedom in a democratic country

What would you take?

Besides, the "critical journalists" you speak of were openly trying to overthrow Correa's government.

Sorry, the red-baiting won't work

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:52 PM

159. Are you serious?

There will be no "questioning by the Swedish police" and if you don't realize that by now.... I don't know what to say.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 07:58 PM

161. Wow! I wasn't a fan of unrec's. But in this case... This post is deserving of one.

Personally think he's suffered more than any journalist should have and that he's a hero.

I can't say more - I'm disgusted.

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Response to 20score (Reply #161)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:26 AM

179. "Santa Assange's country house Christmas" has sad photos showing how Julian has suffered

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #179)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:01 PM

193. I think that it is wonderful that kind and compassionate well to do folks,

folks who recognize the economic injustice and inequality of the status quo, and who recognize Julian as a very effective, non-violent crusader against the corruption of the status quo, provide Julian with such comfortable circumstances. BTW, being deprived of freedom and liberty, under any circumstances, is not a pleasant thing, unless for some instances where someone has been institutionalized by long term confinement.

Using these photos is extremely ineffective propaganda.

Please, try something else!


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Response to Zorra (Reply #193)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:17 PM

194. Doesn't Julian's suffering just bring tears to your eyes?

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #194)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:32 PM

196. Wow. That's like, really, really, sad.













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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 08:23 PM

164. Yep. You won't see him w/o his shirt...the yellow stripe shows. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #164)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:19 PM

200. The Yellow Stripe?

 

Really? Wow, most people stop saying ridiculous things like that after the 5th grade.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:31 PM

165. Another Swedish opinion

 

A very detailed criticism of the process so far in Sweden, concluding that it has been full of mistakes and has not been proportionate and thus Assange would not get a fair trial.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:18 PM

169. That ends any possibility of you receiving further attention from me. I hope others also drop you.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #169)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:55 PM

174. Since many here jump up and down, accusing the Swedish prosecutors of prostituting

themselves for the sake of US policy and accusing Swedish women of fucking when Karl Rove tells them the CIA needs their help, I thought it would be fair to cite a Swedish POV on Assange

It is, of course, unfortunate if you do not want to hear how some Swedes react to the ugly accusations frequently made about them by Assange supporters, but I think you are certainly well within your rights to shut your eyes and put your fingers in your ears and scream la-la-la! I can't hear you if you so choose

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:33 PM

170. Assange is indeed a coward

and an attention whore, to boot.

He'll probably be in that room for a long time.

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Response to Zorro (Reply #170)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:44 PM

191. ^^^This is NOT me!^^^ I am Zorra. With an "A" on the end. The female counterpart of the

legendary fictional hero of the people called Zorro.

The character Zorro, like Julian Assange, struggled for the equality of the 99%, and economic justice for the 99% as well. Zorro despised the tyranny of the 1%. He did not support the 1% whatsoever; he despised them and fought for the people against the status quo.

Here is one of the reasons I chose the screen name Zorra:

The character has undergone changes through the years, but the typical image of him is a dashing black-clad masked outlaw who defends the people of the land against tyrannical officials and other villains. Not only is he much too cunning and foxlike for the bumbling authorities to catch, but he delights in publicly humiliating those same foes.


The reason I bring this up here is because I have been confused with the poster above several times before, due to the similarity of our screennames names. However, judging from the post above,, and from past posts we appear to be on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

So, please, do not confuse me with the above poster. I am Zorra, with an "A".

Thanks!



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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:01 AM

175. No. Assange is a hero, standing up to Big Brother, War Inc.

WikiLeaks exposes the warmonger traitors for what they are.

Witness how they're coming down hard on him for it.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #175)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:05 PM

187. I agree.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:03 AM

176. Again?

You posted this last night, didn't you? Go troll somewhere else. We're not buying it.

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Response to brush (Reply #176)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:18 AM

177. Quelle horreur! An anti-Assange article from a Swedish paper! I fear I may swoon!

It's fine, of course, if we accuse Swedish prosecutors of prostituting themselves for the sake of the US State Department, or to suggest that Swedish women only ever fuck people when Karl Rove tells them the CIA needs their help, provided the ugly nonsense helps dear! dear! Julian

But we certainly don't want any DUers hearing contrary opinions from a Swedish newspaper -- oh, no! that would be trolling! And we can always spot a troll: they give themselves away by not believing the ugly nonsense repeated again and again to help dear! dear! Julian

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:11 PM

188. silly

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:15 PM

189. To fear extradition to a country that has tossed out habeas corpus is not cowardly. It's sensible.

The USA now allows indefinite detention without charges.


over the past decade, the US's own human rights situation has deteriorated. Of course prior to the civil rights legislation of the 1960s, millions of African-Americans in the southern states didn't have the right to vote, and lacked other civil rights – and the consequent international embarrassment was part of what allowed the civil rights movement to succeed. But at least by the end of that decade, the US could be seen as a positive example internally in terms of the rule of law, due process and the protection of civil rights and liberties.

Today, the US claims the legal right to indefinitely detain its citizens; the president can order the assassination of a citizen without so much as even a hearing; the government can spy on its citizens without a court order; and its officials are immune from prosecution for war crimes. It doesn't help that the US has less than 5% of the world's population but almost a quarter of its prison inmates, many of them victims of a "war on drugs" that is rapidly losing legitimacy in the rest of the world. Assange's successful pursuit of asylum from the US is another blow to Washington's international reputation. At the same time, it shows how important it is to have democratic governments that are independent of the US and – unlike Sweden and the UK – will not collaborate in the persecution of a journalist for the sake of expediency. Hopefully other governments will let the UK know that threats to invade another country's embassy put them outside the bounds of law-abiding nations.



from The Guardian

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Aug 21, 2012, 04:11 PM

208. He'd be extradited to the US and sent to GITMO or worse if he went to Sweden. Assange is no fool.


US justice would railroad him just like its railroading Bradley Manning.

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