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Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:27 PM

What if Romney's playing rope-a-dope with his tax returns?

Posit: He has every intent of releasing his returns, which conceal nothing illegal or even questionable or offensive, but he's holding onto them to give the Democrats more time to make demands that he release them. Then he releases them and the ensuing flurry of non-harmful facts buries the Democrats and the president.

What if?

(Re-posted - originally a reply in another thread.)

54 replies, 3793 views

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Reply What if Romney's playing rope-a-dope with his tax returns? (Original post)
Bertha Venation Aug 2012 OP
The Magistrate Aug 2012 #1
Matariki Aug 2012 #14
Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #23
mazzarro Aug 2012 #34
Not Me Aug 2012 #2
Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #11
Kalidurga Aug 2012 #3
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #24
Kalidurga Aug 2012 #38
Kalidurga Aug 2012 #39
Arkana Aug 2012 #4
Lone_Star_Dem Aug 2012 #5
cbdo2007 Aug 2012 #6
Bertha Venation Aug 2012 #13
karynnj Aug 2012 #45
Jackpine Radical Aug 2012 #52
yewberry Aug 2012 #7
SDjack Aug 2012 #8
madinmaryland Aug 2012 #9
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #10
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2012 #12
unblock Aug 2012 #15
2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #16
IndyJones Aug 2012 #17
33Greeper Aug 2012 #18
Broderick Aug 2012 #19
uponit7771 Aug 2012 #20
kctim Aug 2012 #21
Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #22
1-Old-Man Aug 2012 #25
part man all 86 Aug 2012 #31
fredamae Aug 2012 #26
MADem Aug 2012 #27
Rabid_Rabbit Aug 2012 #28
cleduc Aug 2012 #29
pnwmom Aug 2012 #30
Gothmog Aug 2012 #33
pnwmom Aug 2012 #36
part man all 86 Aug 2012 #32
Poll_Blind Aug 2012 #35
rrneck Aug 2012 #37
JHB Aug 2012 #40
malaise Aug 2012 #41
randome Aug 2012 #42
HereSince1628 Aug 2012 #43
Ineeda Aug 2012 #44
spanone Aug 2012 #46
deaniac21 Aug 2012 #47
dkf Aug 2012 #48
maxrandb Aug 2012 #49
mom2threegirls Aug 2012 #50
Drunken Irishman Aug 2012 #51
ibegurpard Aug 2012 #53
customerserviceguy Aug 2012 #54

Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:30 PM

1. Not Happening, Ma'am

About the only consistent position he has taken in his political career is a refusal to release his tax returns. He knows full well the perfectly legal things in them will stink to high heaven, and ruin any political prospects he might have.

"Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:47 PM

14. "Romney loves America like a tick loves a dog."

That quote is brilliant. Is it yours? It needs to go viral at any rate.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:06 PM

23. Yep - perfectly legal, politically toxic.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 03:01 PM

34. Adding to that is the fact that he has been withholding his tax for a long time now

He can't be playing rope-a-dope for the races he ran and refused to release his returns. He even refused to release his Olympic games management records! Is that also a rope-a-dope? Not to talk about the fact that he erased computer hard drives of his term as governor. The dude is not joking - he is serious about not letting anything about him come to light.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:30 PM

2. I don't think he's that smart.

Seriously.

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Response to Not Me (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:44 PM

11. I'm with you...

It's the old Occam's Razor. Go with the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions. Mitt has a troubled financial history, as his furious back-pedaling away from Bain can attest. There's something nasty in those returns. Bet on it.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:32 PM

3. This is the only thing Romney hasn't waffled on...

And the damage is already done. Romney has now been dubbed Romney Hood. At this point his releasing his taxes will prove he earned the title.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:06 PM

24. You mean Rmoney Hood, right?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:48 PM

38. #Romneyhood

Yes of course.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:50 PM

39. LOL Rmoneyhood.

The first time I typed Romney's name even before seeing other people type it that was I did that, it was an accident then I noticed what I did and thought you know what that looks more accurate. I don't even notice anymore when someone spells Rmoney.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:33 PM

4. Romney hasn't done anything to show he's capable of this kind of 11th-dimensional chess.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:35 PM

5. Reid doesn't come up for reelection until 2016

If he chooses to run at all this will be a non-issue by that point in time. It's pretty much a win-win situation we're in here. Other Dems are supporting what Reid said, and Reid doesn't have much, if anything to lose.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:36 PM

6. he has had weeks and weeks and weeks of bad publicity.....

and when he releases his tax returns he'll have maybe a few hours of GOOD publicity from it?

Can you tell me how these are equal in your mind? The longer he goes without releasing them the more questions it puts in the minds of the voters. He can't just erase those questions by coming out one morning with the tax returns and nothing in them. It's simple psychology. Put it into the people's heads over and over again and it will stick, even if it's not true and has been proven wrong.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:46 PM

13. cbdo2007:

"Can you tell me how these are equal in your mind?"

They are not equal in my mind. I've simply opened a discussion on something that's been troubling me.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:10 PM

45. I agree with cbdo2007

This has gone on too long for that. This is the time that Romney needs to positively define himself - he can't do it in just the convention. The last month has questioned his Bain actions and his financial actions on his taxes. Many who might have been looking for a viable alternative to Obama, may in the last month seen that he does not have the gravitas or diplomatic skill to be a statesman and that he does not have the character and honesty needed to be a good alternative. His brittleness when questioned on this alone may make it seem that he is not Presidential.

In 2004, Kerry who did act in a Presidential manner and who had the integrity and character - along with the diplomatic skill and background to be President was ambushed by Bush allies at this time of the process. Due to the McCain/Feingold rules, he was also facing using the same amount of money that Bush did over 8 weeks over the 13 weeks between the convention and the election. (Note the the media did FAR less to question the lies (the media had the Navy records and the liars contradicted them) than they have questioned the fact that the Democrats are attacking Mitt on Bain and taxes - even if not lies. The purpose of the liars was not really to end up convincing the country, but to minimize Kerry's success in using his genuine heroism and what it said of his character and integrity to define his character.

I am not equating the two - with only the difference of lies vs facts or contested facts. In Romney's case, he has claimed that his bio shows he would be a good President, but he has then hidden virtually all records of all the important parts of his life. Where in 2004, Kerry was exactly who he said he was - and he gained more support as people actually knew him, Romney is liked less as more is known of him. So, while this period was important to both, Kerry's need was to get more people to actually hear him and know him - while Romney's need is to keep hidden most of what he did and who he is. In 2004, the media aided Bush by not giving Kerry the time they gave other nominees. This year much of the media has tried to help Romney - with things like various people arguing that the "barbering" incident was unimportant and showed nothing about the current Romney, their problem is that Romney is so prone to gaffes that they have not been able to create a favorable image for him - as they did for George Bush.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 08:43 PM

52. I sorta understand your anxiety over this, but Myth Romney has never shown any

evidence of being clever. And he has a tendency to fire advisers who are smarter than him--which is just about everybody. I think he's just up shit creek on this one.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:41 PM

7. I've thought about that, too.

I reassure myself with the knowledge that there was a $77,000 deduction for dressage on the documentation we do have, so it's quite likely that there will be more of that kind of thing. Even if the details are technically legal, that leaves a very sour taste for people like me, struggling to gross half of that in a year.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:42 PM

8. If he is playing rope-a-dope, our response is that he is unethical for gaming the

nomination and election process. USA has serious problems and needs serious participants, not gamers.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:43 PM

9. The dope (Romney) will end up all tangled up in the rope...


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:44 PM

10. then like old fat Ali he will lose the fight badly.

Rope a dope worked for Ali when he was just past his prime but still able to put up an excellent fight in short bursts. It didn't work at all in his last fights, he had nothing in the tank to start with.

Mittens is now in perpetual defense mode and his major selling point "I'm a Bidness Man" (besides of course "I'm the White Guy") is now a major detraction. Like the swiftboat offensive against Kerry, this neutralizes his game plan. Team Romney is in disaster recovery mode, and the Obama campaign is not going to let up and allow them to regroup.

He can't release his taxes. If he could he would have already done so. His taxes are a major embarrassment. The details of that embarrassment are either TBD or the Democrats will be allowed to speculate freely. Either way it is a win. But wait, there is more to come.

Meanwhile please donate to the Obama campaign so they can keep those great ads running. They are working.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:45 PM

12. The only major question people will be asking if and when Romney releases more tax returns

ESPECIALLY if there's nothing damaging in them is: Why did it take so long? I would add too that all Reid and the Democrats have thrown up is speculation and innuendo. They're being careful to avoid making any specific allegations (or they are talking about things they say they have heard from other sources), so if the returns are released and there is nothing particularly bad in them, people (including Reid, et. al) will just shrug their shoulders and move on. The damage to Mitt is done already and it's certainly not going to sink President Obama if it turns out that there is no "there" there, particularly since he has largely been on the sidelines on this issue. I don't think I've heard him say anything that might blow up in his face if this all turns out to be "much ado about nothing", has he?

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:50 PM

15. good campaigns don't suffer slings and arrows pointlessly. rope-a-dope precedes a blistering attack

merely putting out clean tax returns merely ends the attacks against rmoney.

rope-a-dope requires obama to essentially deplete his resources on an attack rmoney knows will fail AND THEN come out with some blistering attack against obama that obama will be too broke to respond to effectively.

do you really think rmoney has that kind of dirt against obama and he's just keeping his powder dry?

i don't think so.


especially because, at this point, he looks weak if he caves and releases his tax returns even if they're clean.

if rope-a-dope were his strategy, he might have said he would release his taxes "in due time" or "we're working on it". he would have made DELAYING noises rather than refusals.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 01:56 PM

16. why does this keep coming up?

It has already done enough damage to Mittster to mitigate anything he would get by coming up with a clean return.

It would not hurt the dems if his return came out squeaky clean. But it is hurting him like hell, now. That can't be undone no matter what he shows in the end.

But he is hiding a possibility of many things like:
felony voting from districts not lived in
lying about where he lived when he ran as Governor.
huge income that is not like the rest of ours
questionable deductions
taking amnesty
keeping money in foreign banks
improper tithing
lower tax rate than what he stated
no tax
money back
donations
holdings
improper claims
outright lies
unreported income

damage done to dems if taxes are clean? 0

damage done to his campaign for refusal to show-priceless

This is not a Rover trick people. This is actual stupidity on the part of the republican presumptive nominee and we should all be relishing it. Times they are a changing.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:00 PM

17. That's very possible. Known attacks are easier to control than future unknowns. It's a great

strategy for Romney to postpone releasing his returns until much later so that people can continue to focus on this one issue and continue to get all spun up over it and then release them to show that it was all a waste of energy and time. They know that as long as people are spending energy on this issue, many other more important issues are being ignored.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:01 PM

18. Dear Mitt Romney ,

Release at least 10 years of tax returns. What are you hiding? Did you apply for IRS Amnesty on your Swiss bank account? Is it true what's being said about you paying NO Federal Income taxes for ten years? Inquiring independent voters want to know.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:01 PM

19. Doesn't matter

The narrative has been created and the damage is being done. He can pull them out later and no matter how great they look in his favor, the narrative was set.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:02 PM

20. He has to explain the 100m in his 401K....that's not "rope a dope" that's something to hide

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:03 PM

21. I wouldn't worry about it all that much

 

Whether he releases them tonight, tomorrow or never, it's not going to sway the election one way or another.
Those who "care" about this are the ones who were already going to vote for or against him anyway.

President Obama in a landslide either way.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:04 PM

22. Not buying into that - George Will said it perfectly.

Willard made his career in Risk Management, and he weighed the risks of this constant barrage over taking the hit for a few days by releasing his taxes. He KNOWS that whatever is in there is more damaging than taking the hits for not releasing.

Not that he did anything illegal, but there will be a massive spotlight on how the rich evade their tax burden with loopholes. Carried Interest, offset on US taxes for foreign taxes paid, etc...

Not to mention, the RW won't be pleased about his financial gains on stem cell research companies, Teva: who makes the morning after pill (now that it is off patent), donations to Planned Parenthood and others deemed "unseemly" by the base.

Or - ask yourself - why didn't he release his taxes in 2002 when he had the (R) nom for Governor?

Sorry - but those tax returns are political nuclear waste and will never see the light of day as filed.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:09 PM

25. It is good to recall that Ali did not stay on the ropes the entire fight

The very moment the Champ's energy conservation scheme proved to be effective he came right off the ropes and defeated his opponents. For Romney to follow suit he would have already released his returns and they would have come up clean - but that hasn't happened.

Just keep this in mind: If Mohamed Ali had stayed on the ropes until the end of the fight he would have lost on points.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:36 PM

31. +1000

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:16 PM

26. To "toy" with Us on this matter would be worse

for romney----unless he would have ended this a Month ago----
I hope he's done nothing illegal and morally offensive.

It's not the Politicians and Pres that have demanded these records-its All of America . We the People are yelling much louder, Including GOP'rs than this Pres and Harry combined.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:25 PM

27. Well, the dope he's roping is himself. Give him enough rope, and all that... nt

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:25 PM

28. Unlikely

 

but it seems strange. If there was something bad in the returns, why not release it sooner rather than later. He has to know that the media will hound him about this and he has to give in at some point

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:26 PM

29. Doubt it

He'd be giving further details towards having to explain how his IRA grew to 10,000 years worth of max contributions.

He may throw out a bone but he's not going to show much more because he can't. It would dominate much of the remaining election cycle and folks dug up more stuff from it

For about two weeks straight, it seems he's been getting hammered on something:
- foreign policy gaffes
- Reid and tax returns
- Tax Policy Center report
- Lying about Ohio military voters - early voting
- RomneyHood
- Rafalka
- etc

Negative articles about Romney are way up and many, many more than Obama.

He's in a tough fight to get his campaign on message because they seem to be on their heels daily - and that's free advertising for Obama when the mainstream media is consumed with that.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:27 PM

30. Was he also playing rope-a-dope when he released the INCOMPLETE 2010 return?

The one without the special form for reporting foreign income?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:54 PM

33. The 2010 return is not a complete return

Romney left off the form as to foriegn assets and the exact amount in the Swiss and other bank accounts

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 03:20 PM

36. Uh -- that's what I said. n/t

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 02:46 PM

32. And what if little mitty is, Harry is not running for office.

Any damage from this will come from voters that have already decided for mitty litter. Focus on maybe registering a couple of people from now until november, which will be my next little adventure to get out of my house.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 03:04 PM

35. It's a real possibility. But I think there is skeleton in that closet. nt

PB

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 03:24 PM

37. Beat him up over it anyway.

Even if he paid every dime he made in taxes and has the paperwork to prove it keep pounding him. Demand every scrap of financial information possible.

Keep talking about how much money he has and how little everybody else has.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:53 PM

40. With who? Himself? He's the dope giving himself plenty of rope.

He's been tight with his returns in every election he's ever run in. He planned to just stonewall like he always has, but this time it's not fading out like he's used to.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:59 PM

41. Then he's been playing rope-a-dope since he ran for Mass governor n/t

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

42. Obama is no dope.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

43. Playing rope-a-dope with a senator who is looking to retire?

I don't think that does much to elevated Romney. It might have before he had the nomination in the bag, but not now.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:03 PM

44. If released, I think it would be fair play

to claim they're fake, forgeries, not legitimate -- kinda like the birth certificate. 'Course I don't believe he ever will, as he never has before. But I think it would be funny and (R) heads would be exploding all over the place.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:14 PM

46. wishful thinking....trust me, there are massive turds in his tax returns

probably MILLIONS alone deducted for horses/boarding/trasport etc. over the years....a hobby.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:18 PM

47. Harry should ask rmoney if he still beats his wife.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:55 PM

48. What if he redacts everything except for the "taxes paid" line?

 

He would show that Harry Reid is making it all up.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 08:17 PM

49. The only way Romney Hood releases his returns

is if he's had his accountants working what we in the Navy call "Port and Report" shifts filing amendments and writing checks. Then he will claim, the years I didn't pay taxes were "accounting errors" and I've now made corrections and paid all required taxes.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 08:20 PM

50. I bet he will release fake (or partial) returns the week before the election...

...which look good on the surface, but which we won't have enough time to prove wrong.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 08:35 PM

51. Romney is stupid - but he's not that stupid...

If he was going to release his tax returns, he would have released them months ago. He's being absolutely destroyed, torn down, ripped to shreds all around and releasing the tax returns won't change that. The damage has been inflicted and there is no rollin' it back.

Romney has been defined. That image is concrete now. Just as McGovern was for amnesty, abortion and acid, Dukakis was a soft on crime, tax-and-spend liberal, Gore was boring and dull and Kerry was a traitor - the image has stuck and will remain for the remainder of the campaign ... no matter when or if Romney releases his returns.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 08:48 PM

53. what if he is?

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:27 PM

54. I strongly suspect you're right

Especially after he got Harry Reid to make his charges on the floor of the Senate.

It's a way to transform a ho-hum, "look at his Cayman Island accounts" story into something that he can rebound from. Now, I surely hope I'm wrong, but he outmaneuvered his Rethug competition, didn't he?

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