HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » It's a natural reaction t...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:04 PM

It's a natural reaction to assume Chavis Carter was executed. But, IMO, there's a slight...

...chance that Mr. Carter wasn't executed by police officers and that he didn't intentionally take his own life either: That he might have been trying to retrieve the hidden handgun that the police had missed during the searches and that during the process of trying to extract or move the handgun, with his hands bound by cuffs, it accidentally discharged and killed him.

I think the posts I've made here over the last 10 years or so would pretty clearly indicate I don't spend any of my time fabricating bizarre scenarios in order to cover for police brutality. But looking over the information that's coming out there a number of things that strike me as odd, the first of which being that if you were a police officer who wanted to execute someone (and get away with it) this is, without a doubt, the most self-incriminating way to do it.

I'm not saying definitively that he wasn't executed by one or more officers and I'm not saying definitively that he didn't commit suicide. In either one of those cases either the officers are lying or Mr. Carter's own mother didn't know her own son's psychological state. I'm also not saying there aren't a number of fishy aspects to the story, namely the release of the two white males who were with him, possibly just prior to or just after the shooting. There are some other curious aspects as recounted by the officers in the articles I've read, being that when they found him A) his hands were allegedly still cuffed and locked, still behind his back or partly underneath him (to the point that the officer said he attempted to uncuff Mr. Carter but could not easily do so because of the position of the body) and B) that Mr. Carter's head was almost in his own lap, as though he were already unnaturally bent over when shot in the head. I don't have the links for all those, but this article from BET appears to have the best list of events, chronologically.

What I am saying is, however improbable, there actually is a way that both sides of the story are telling the truth, and that his death may have resulted from an accidental discharge of a firearm.

From this very recent Huffington Post article:
Several calls to the Jonesboro Police Department were not returned. But Chief Michale Yates told Jane Velez Mitchell on HLN that the death is "definitely bizarre and defies logic at first glance."

“We are actively trying to determine how that happened,” Yates said.

“There’s no indication of any projectiles coming from outside the vehicle. We’ve reviewed the dashcam video and as late as today managed to have some witnesses come forward that observed the incident from start to finish," Yates said. "And their statements tend to support that whatever transpired in the back of that police car transpired in the back with the officers in a different location.”


The police chief indicates that witnesses and dashcam footage corroborate the story of the two officers. Of course, there's the possibility that he's "in on the coverup" as well. But his department's rapid request for the FBI to join the investigation, especially to help with ballistic forensics, also seems to be a piss-poor way to coverup a murder, if that's what you're trying to do.

Dashcam evidence available: CHECK
Corroborating witnesses from start to finish: CHECK
Police Chief openly admitting the scenario itself is bizarre: CHECK
Police department rapidly enlisting the aid of the FB for help in forensic analysis: CHECK

If these officers are trying to get away with murder, if their chief is attempting to cover for them, they're all going about it in absolutely the most absurd way possible.

I think it might be worth waiting a few days on this one before coming to a conclusion. I think the FBI's involvement will rapidly expedite the investigation into what happened and those things will also start coming out soon.

PB

19 replies, 2651 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply It's a natural reaction to assume Chavis Carter was executed. But, IMO, there's a slight... (Original post)
Poll_Blind Aug 2012 OP
reflection Aug 2012 #1
Poll_Blind Aug 2012 #5
reflection Aug 2012 #8
KamaAina Aug 2012 #10
Poll_Blind Aug 2012 #12
panader0 Aug 2012 #2
Poll_Blind Aug 2012 #13
noiretextatique Aug 2012 #3
Comrade Grumpy Aug 2012 #16
noiretextatique Aug 2012 #18
BklnDem75 Aug 2012 #4
msanthrope Aug 2012 #9
BklnDem75 Aug 2012 #11
msanthrope Aug 2012 #14
BklnDem75 Aug 2012 #15
msanthrope Aug 2012 #17
Eddie Haskell Aug 2012 #6
MNBrewer Aug 2012 #7
Cooley Hurd Aug 2012 #19

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:07 PM

1. I thought the same thing at first

but didn't the police chief say that no gun was found? Could have sworn I saw a post this morning in GD with a quote from the chief that confirmed it. Going to go look for it now...

edit: here it is, http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021068090

although, the link to the actual interview is a "404 not found," so I take the assertion with a grain of salt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reflection (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:45 PM

5. More information's just come out: It was a small .380 caliber Cobra

I don't recall reading anything so far which indicated that no gun was found. All of the stories indicated that a gun had been found next to him.

I believe this is an image of that gun, or one similar to it, from the manufacturer's website:


That's a pretty small gun. Not the smallest gun in the world but pretty damned small. The manufacturer also produced derringers which are even smaller, but not by all that much. Designed to be easily concealed.

Information from this article:
Police release more information in Chavis Carter death

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:57 PM

8. I stand corrected.

Yes, if they did indeed find a gun, then it makes sense that they could have missed it with a sloppy search and he accidentally shot himself somehow. But I guess all we can do is see how it shakes out. I feel terrible for the mother either way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reflection (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:14 PM

10. Shot himself in the right temple?

Where, exactly, would the gun have had to be concealed so the barrel was pointing at his right temple, even if his head was "almost in his lap"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KamaAina (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:28 PM

12. If the divider between the front and back seats was a steel plate, it didn't need to be...

...pointed at his temple. The accounts say his body was found with the victim bent forward so far that his head was almost in his lap, which indicates that his head might have almost been touching the divider between the front and back, and that divider was made of something relatively hard, and if the pistol was oriented in such a way, it's quite possible that a bullet could have been fired parallel to him, hit the divider plate and parts of the bullet ricocheted into his head.

The reason why I bring this up is that in the latest report there is a curious mention of having found a projectile (i.e. the bullet) or what I actually think is a bullet fragment, in the cab with him.

Police release more information in Chavis Carter death
The newest information released has revealed that a small .380 caliber cobra semi-auto firearm was discovered along with an expended case and a projectile, which was recovered in the back of the vehicle. Investigators said the firearm found in the patrol car had previously been reported stolen by a Jonesboro resident.


When he was allegedly found, he was still breathing and died later at the hospital. A full .380 to the temple would have probably killed him instantly but the autonomic system is in the back of the head so I guess it's really neither here nor there. But I did think the recovery of "a projectile" was an interesting detail and an unusual one.

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:14 PM

2. Once, while handcuffed behind my back in the back of a police car (misdemeanor pot possession)

I was able to work my arms under my ass. When we got to the station, and the cops saw me with my hands in my lap, they were shocked. Not what happened with Mr. Carter I don't believe.
What kind of pat down does not reveal a handgun? At the least, the police have a big problem with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panader0 (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:33 PM

13. When I first wrote about this in another thread, I suspected what had happened was that...

...in trying to reach the gun he had bent forward and the gun might have been underneath him, essentially firing between his legs and striking him in the temple, with his head turnd in such a bizarre way as he strained to perform the physical act.

However, there's something interesting (maybe it's nothing) from this very recent article:
The newest information released has revealed that a small .380 caliber cobra semi-auto firearm was discovered along with an expended case and a projectile, which was recovered in the back of the vehicle. Investigators said the firearm found in the patrol car had previously been reported stolen by a Jonesboro resident.


I just finished watching an episode of Mythbusters with my youngest son which covered ricochets. As crazy as this sounds, if they found a projectile or what I think might be part of one, then the bullet could have been fired, missed him completely, hit the back of the police officer's seat and bounced off a metal plate back into his head. Long shot, but I bring it up becuase I wouldn't be surprised if the back of a police officer's seat actually had a big hard piece of metal like that to separate them from gunfire from the back. I dunno.

If he was as bent forward with the top of his head touching that plate and he fired a bullet accidentally into it, it's absolutely possible that the bullet shattered but a chunk went into his head. Again, I bring this up only because I finished watching a show on just this sort of thing, which covered bullets that ricochet off of 1, 2 and 3 surfaces in quite a bit of detail, showing the ricochet and fragmentation in slow motion, and calculating whether the fragments would still be traveling at lethal speed if they hit a human.

It's the episode called "Boomerang Bullet", and it's in the first half of the episode. It goes on in the second half of the episode, but they cover stuff like bullets traveling through bent pipes and stuff that isn't germane to what I'm talking about.

PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:28 PM

3. i think it is yet another execution

Teresa Carter, Chavis Carter’s mother, told reporters that she believes the police killed Carter and are now attempting to cover it up. She said her son suffered a wound to his right temple, though he was left-handed. And just minutes earlier during the traffic stop, according to Teresa Carter, her son had called his girlfriend and told her he’d call later from jail.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/chavis-carter-handcuffed-fbi_n_1735211.html

Question: Why did the police let the (white) driver and other (white) passenger go? Arrogant cops think they can get away with anything, because most of the time they do get away with everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noiretextatique (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:46 PM

16. Chavis had pot on him and outstanding warrants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 07:26 PM

18. $10.00 worth of weed and 1 outstanding warrant

for selling weed hardly worthy of suicide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:40 PM

4. And shot himself in the right temple? No gun found?

The chances of that is less than zero.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:00 PM

9. Gun found, see upthread. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:26 PM

11. Still doesn't explain the angle

His hands were behind his back, double cuffed. Mike Massey couldn't pull a trick shot like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:34 PM

14. Well, if I'm trying to get to a gun that is in my nether regions, or thereabouts,

and I am cuffed, but easing the weapon out so I can abandon it, I could have a mishap.

Doesn't mean I tried to pull a trigger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:46 PM

15. At the side of your right temple?

He's dead with his hands behind his back, not an awkward position where it looks like he was reaching for something. Nobody's pulling off this angle without assistance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BklnDem75 (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 06:10 PM

17. Sure...we don't know the angle yet.

Forensics is either to back these cops up or really screw them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:54 PM

6. Sure he did.

The officer had a bad day ... he lost his temper. Exercising power over others is how they get their kicks. The only thing that separates them from other killers is a fucking badge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eddie Haskell (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:55 PM

7. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eddie Haskell (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 14, 2012, 10:15 PM

19. +10000!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread