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kentuck

(110,916 posts)
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:10 PM Aug 2012

Dana Bash (CNN) says her source can confirm Reid's tax allegation

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/02/1116216/-CNN-s-Dana-Bash-Her-source-can-confirm-Reid-tax-allegation



Tonight on CNN AC360, Anderson Copper opened his 'keeping them honest' segment with Sen. Harry Reid's recent tax allegation about Mitt Romney.

Cooper had CNN Capitol Hill reporter, Dana Bash on to discuss the story, according to Bash, her source can confirm Sen. Reid's allegation. Bash went even further, she said this source also personally knows the Bain source who would have access to Romney's tax record. If this Bain source story is true, then, Mitt Romney is in serious trouble. I'll have more later.

Update @Dana Bash tweets

"When Harry Reid doesn't like someone, he goes for the jugular." - @DanaBashCNN #Romney

JUST IN: @DanaBashCNN receives a new statement from @SenatorReid's office, saying Senator #Reid has a "credible source." #Romney

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Dana Bash (CNN) says her source can confirm Reid's tax allegation (Original Post) kentuck Aug 2012 OP
drip drip high density Aug 2012 #1
It's a ticking bomb that the Mittens campaign can't defuse CabCurious Aug 2012 #157
and yet, Right wing playboy Romney will release a BS version of it fascisthunter Aug 2012 #2
If tax copies are forged then I would think the IRS would step forward and question them INdemo Aug 2012 #53
question is.... who works in the IRS fascisthunter Aug 2012 #56
Is the IRS allowed to do that? quakerboy Aug 2012 #86
no they are not allowed to comment on taxpayers' filings publicly. lastlib Aug 2012 #92
Thats what I figured quakerboy Aug 2012 #114
I agree JustAnotherGen Aug 2012 #136
Where is Wiki Leaks when you need them? Dustlawyer Aug 2012 #147
We need a Bradley manning in the IRS. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2012 #184
You might want to Google "Playboy" johnnyplankton Aug 2012 #163
LOL -Poor Mittens and his unethical lying self. myrna minx Aug 2012 #3
Mitt to schedule trip to Nepal to look for Yeti Botany Aug 2012 #13
Nah, he's in Colorado, having a strategy meeting with Karl Rove and his super pac. notadmblnd Aug 2012 #32
yes we were there....where's mittens??? Slit Skirt Aug 2012 #153
After he finds the Yeti, he's off to find Atlantis so my stars and garters, when would he find myrna minx Aug 2012 #50
Did you say garters? sarcasmo Aug 2012 #151
Yes, they really should leave him be! Kurovski Aug 2012 #90
Fetch the cold comresses and smelling salts... myrna minx Aug 2012 #146
CNN going after Rmoney? RedStateLiberal Aug 2012 #4
Reporting the facts is not going after someone, IMO. nt Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #26
I agree but they've been covering for him a lot lately. RedStateLiberal Aug 2012 #42
We democrats understand that pennylane100 Aug 2012 #172
Lol! Excellent and true point! nt Honeycombe8 Aug 2012 #177
They have spent the past decade rebranding themselves as Fox News lite. hay rick Aug 2012 #49
There's a new boss in town. Pab Sungenis Aug 2012 #143
I've seen Dana Bash a few times- not sure I'd trust her (or any CNN pundit). Just another CNN AlinPA Aug 2012 #63
Maybe, but would she risk her job for this? /nt mwb970 Aug 2012 #159
I wonder what the chances are Control-Z Aug 2012 #5
That would be seriously illegal...... AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #9
Not to mention that the IRS has the real info. GoCubsGo Aug 2012 #18
And that's exactly what we want to see, and SHOULD ask for! nt AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #40
He doesn't have to do fake. Fuddnik Aug 2012 #20
but they'd have to be signed and dated, so it would essentially screw him either way. n/t progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #75
finally, a good explanation for a delay in releasing the forms -- assuming he eventually will. unblock Aug 2012 #109
bad, bad, bad, yes; but actually illegal? unblock Aug 2012 #106
except that, per above post, that could open an IRS investigation magical thyme Aug 2012 #130
I ran the question past a friend of mine, who would know better than us. I was half right. Fuddnik Aug 2012 #132
that is all SUPER interesting! Thank you for finding all that out! renate Aug 2012 #164
so the irs investigates and quickly figures out he lied to the public. unblock Aug 2012 #142
read post 132. apparently it's not that simple. :) nt magical thyme Aug 2012 #148
distributing doctored returns to the public and actually filing amended returns are very different unblock Aug 2012 #155
he wouldn't need to distribute fake returns unless there was something very wrong with the real ones magical thyme Aug 2012 #156
the possibility is that there's nothing LEGALLY wrong with his returns but POLITICALLY wrong. unblock Aug 2012 #160
there's also a good possibility that he took the 2009 amnesty magical thyme Aug 2012 #161
Romney could give the IRS permission... Blanks Aug 2012 #149
If there are enough questions about his taxes, an official investigation could begin wordpix Aug 2012 #23
Think: John McCain jaysunb Aug 2012 #39
and you don't suppose he has a little grudge against mittens..... lastlib Aug 2012 #95
No way . Even tempered, mild mannered, always forgiving John jaysunb Aug 2012 #102
see post #92 above. lastlib Aug 2012 #94
A "retroactive" tax return, perhaps? Blue_In_AK Aug 2012 #118
YES! YES! YES! Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #6
I'm lovin' it malaise Aug 2012 #7
From dana's lips to god's ears then. xchrom Aug 2012 #8
wow...this is huge...thanks for posting. LOVE IT nt Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2012 #10
Watching Mitt Rmoney self-immolate... backscatter712 Aug 2012 #11
I thought Jon Stewart was a bit harsh on Reid. Baitball Blogger Aug 2012 #12
I think it worked for Reid anyway... immoderate Aug 2012 #28
Some highly placed Dem insiders have all the poop on this. hifiguy Aug 2012 #14
"this source also personally knows the Bain source who would have access to Romney's tax record." wordpix Aug 2012 #15
Why would a Bain source have Romney's tax records? dkf Aug 2012 #45
I suspect Mittens doesn't do his own taxes, he has CPA's etc. at Bain, etc. do it for him. freshwest Aug 2012 #52
Because Romney probably bragged about it, and the source probably does the same thing. JaneyVee Aug 2012 #73
HA! Shankapotomus Aug 2012 #16
The pitbull won't let go of Mittens pants leg flamingdem Aug 2012 #17
Romney can't run away from this forever BootinUp Aug 2012 #19
Not a fan of the unnamed source info. However, since it is SOOOO simple to prove that efhmc Aug 2012 #21
the unnamed source brought down the Nixon admin so don't knock it wordpix Aug 2012 #24
But 'unnamed source' can also = McCarthyism, i.e., accusing someone of something odious coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #78
Um, Romney can release his records he hold the evidence. He's being accused of hiding Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #89
Joe McCarthy said, "I have here in my hand coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #98
So, how do you prove you aren't a Communist? Not easy, especially if eridani Aug 2012 #117
I agree that Romney can make the issue go away by releasing his returns (provided they coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #119
I don't understand why he would eridani Aug 2012 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #119
This message was self-deleted by its author coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #119
Source could be Huntsman elfin Aug 2012 #22
that's some pretty astute guesswork Whisp Aug 2012 #34
I have a major suspicion this is the case BSUbluNorange Aug 2012 #35
Welcome to DU! XemaSab Aug 2012 #138
Thank you! BSUbluNorange Aug 2012 #186
Welcome to DU, BSUbluNorange! gateley Aug 2012 #171
actually i'm betting he used that line multiple times oldhippydude Aug 2012 #44
Hehe, Huntsman at one time called Romney a perfectly lubricated weather-vane. nc4bo Aug 2012 #80
Dubya called Mitt and warned him. GreatCaesarsGhost Aug 2012 #25
Mittfalca...you can dance but you can't hide! jpbollma Aug 2012 #27
DUzy! nt Kahuna Aug 2012 #41
DUzy! nt Kahuna Aug 2012 #37
No taxes mitt, while our troops are fighting wars that YOU approved of??? Kahuna Aug 2012 #29
float like a butterfly, sting like a bee grasswire Aug 2012 #30
Romney forgot to play nice with the media... Kalidurga Aug 2012 #31
He has from the begining nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #36
yeah you forgot arely staircase Aug 2012 #43
Seamus is when it started with me. My hatred of him reached the pathological stage coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #81
I got bullied a lot too. Kalidurga Aug 2012 #88
Plus 1000 Auntie Bush Aug 2012 #173
Could this be a trap? moondust Aug 2012 #33
I think that's possible. Kind of like Obama playing Trump on birth certificate. Hoyt Aug 2012 #57
Unlikely. Chan790 Aug 2012 #91
Hmmm... moondust Aug 2012 #105
The plot thickens nevergiveup Aug 2012 #38
Damit Harry gholtron Aug 2012 #46
This is the end Jessy169 Aug 2012 #47
Let's hope Harry hasn't been Ratherized. snot Aug 2012 #48
They wouldn't play THAT dirty - would they? upi402 Aug 2012 #58
My worry too abelenkpe Aug 2012 #85
Nope--no documents involved eridani Aug 2012 #122
Holy frijole, Batman! SunSeeker Aug 2012 #51
this better not be some set-up fascisthunter Aug 2012 #54
Good point, fascisthunter nikto Aug 2012 #182
So can John McCain but he's been kinda quiet about the subject. no_hypocrisy Aug 2012 #55
Mr. I-Haven't-Paid-Taxes-For-10-Years wants to stick it to the 99%? I don't think so! pacalo Aug 2012 #59
It's a trap krawhitham Aug 2012 #60
I hope not sandyshoes17 Aug 2012 #67
If if was a Rove trick.... doohnibor Aug 2012 #76
reid has layed the trap arely staircase Aug 2012 #70
Unless he paid a percentage similar to that of a middle class schmuck, he has problems. MADem Aug 2012 #128
Iworried it was a trap the first time I heard he wouldn't publish his tax returns. Auntie Bush Aug 2012 #174
Is there a link to this besides Kos? Thanks. jillan Aug 2012 #61
Hee hee hee! Love it. Robb Aug 2012 #62
CNN should be commended for their excellent reporting. kentuck Aug 2012 #64
Dana Bash just did a truly excellent investigative report Enrique Aug 2012 #131
Cooper is an ass SHRED Aug 2012 #65
quote from Dana on AC360 tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #66
It sounds like she is making it up just to get in the middle of the story ("if we knew the name"). AlinPA Aug 2012 #72
well, I think tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #74
So it's like: "I know a guy who heard a guy talking in a bar about a note his friend found... cherokeeprogressive Aug 2012 #103
I'm hoping this is building to something tangible, like you said, 'here's the source...' tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #104
I think the more likely scenario would be some low-level IRS employee who wants to curry favor cherokeeprogressive Aug 2012 #110
I'm hoping a reporter asks Romney- So if it isn't true, are you going to sue Reid for Libel/Slander? tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #115
Even if they reveal no wrongdoing, they will damned well reveal eridani Aug 2012 #124
This tax return issue will not go away Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #123
yep, it's Harry Reid's credibility that is in question here. 2pooped2pop Aug 2012 #134
Well, this could all be resolved ecstatic Aug 2012 #93
She is the Senior Congressional Correspondent for CNN. She knows EVERYONE on the Hill. MADem Aug 2012 #129
So, republicans jus want to defund OUR government to take over our Country fascisthunter Aug 2012 #68
I wonder if richie rich is going to be compelled to release his returns due to possible fraud? Welp lonestarnot Aug 2012 #69
The Obama campaign abolugi Aug 2012 #71
Then we are back to my evolving theory of the fake candidate kickysnana Aug 2012 #77
Plan B. Ron Paul! R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2012 #96
This is building momentum! Chemisse Aug 2012 #79
Getting faster ? RagAss Aug 2012 #82
Haha! LOVE your sig line. Chemisse Aug 2012 #140
.. RagAss Aug 2012 #144
I'm pretty damned sure Reid KNOWS for a fact that Romney paid zero taxes for 10 yrs. Brewinblue Aug 2012 #83
While speaking on the Senate floor weeks ago, Reid mentioned the fact he paid no taxes Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #107
well this just got funnier cindyperry2010 Aug 2012 #84
oooh la la! Anderson Copperfield strikes again Voice for Peace Aug 2012 #87
I'd like to hear an apology from Jon Stewart if this all pans out. Marr Aug 2012 #97
I think he was criticizing Reid's "his poor father must be so embarrassed" line more than anything boxman15 Aug 2012 #158
I don't know why these rich assholes cry B Calm Aug 2012 #99
This is pure conjecture on my part... kentuck Aug 2012 #100
could be that McCain said something to Reid a long time ago, which would fit the story tomm2thumbs Aug 2012 #108
Heck, Romney's 2010 returns aren't even complete yet! marew Aug 2012 #162
Sweet!!!! Cali_Democrat Aug 2012 #101
Romney must be shitting his pants Jessy169 Aug 2012 #111
Another option. It isn't true, but the real truth is almost as bad n/t eridani Aug 2012 #125
I suspect it's at least 'moral' issue...his defence is searching for high ground HereSince1628 Aug 2012 #133
When he pulles the "legally required" excuse, hit back with "so what?... JHB Aug 2012 #139
There is a moral difference between obeying the letter of the law and obeying the tblue37 Aug 2012 #167
+1 ozsea1 Aug 2012 #168
luscious times 5. n/t pepperbear Aug 2012 #112
The Mormons don't need this garbage... cr8tvlde Aug 2012 #178
This message was self-deleted by its author Jack Sprat Aug 2012 #113
How will the Elders respond? lobodons Aug 2012 #116
As long as they get their 10% cut, they're happy. Vinca Aug 2012 #135
Unless he's been shorting them too. Chan790 Aug 2012 #141
oh my - Berlum Aug 2012 #127
tears of a clown ... napkinz Aug 2012 #137
But clowns are funny. Not pathetic. randome Aug 2012 #169
knr Douglas Carpenter Aug 2012 #145
Chris Christie the new nominee, around Labor Day? sarcasmo Aug 2012 #150
No VP announcement mainstreetonce Aug 2012 #152
My momma always told me beware of quiet people. Oh boy Reid sure has put him in southernyankeebelle Aug 2012 #154
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2012 #165
Yes! Thanks for the post, Kentuck! David Zephyr Aug 2012 #166
I'm not sure he'd be "in serious trouble". gateley Aug 2012 #170
Lawrence O's guests Sam Stein & Jeremy Temkin are saying something like patrice Aug 2012 #176
I'm just thinking his accountants would know every legal trick in the book, gateley Aug 2012 #179
We should appreciate better how that level of wealth creates its own universe patrice Aug 2012 #180
I so agree! gateley Aug 2012 #181
Dana, Bash! canEHdian Aug 2012 #175
Will Dana Bash still have job come Monday? INdemo Aug 2012 #183
Reid has set the bar too low. If Romney comes up with 15% taxes, grahamhgreen Aug 2012 #185

CabCurious

(954 posts)
157. It's a ticking bomb that the Mittens campaign can't defuse
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 11:30 AM
Aug 2012

No matter how hard they try to bury this story or to deflect, it's just getting worse.

It gets at the heart of who this candidate is and why the USA shouldn't pick a vulture capitalist.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
2. and yet, Right wing playboy Romney will release a BS version of it
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:12 PM
Aug 2012

then we will find out latter it was a forgery. Is that what our dickhead wannabe genius Rove is thinking? I'm sure the CORPORATE MEDIA will be more than happy to just, go along.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
53. If tax copies are forged then I would think the IRS would step forward and question them
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:13 PM
Aug 2012

so this is not like Dan Rather reporting the truth about Bush and later the network covered for Junior..But this will certainly be questioned by the IRS if forgery is suspected..Romney could be history if he tries this.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
56. question is.... who works in the IRS
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:16 PM
Aug 2012

since everything seems politicized. Are they filled with Bush hold-overs?

quakerboy

(13,893 posts)
86. Is the IRS allowed to do that?
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:22 PM
Aug 2012

I mean, I can tell you that I made 170k last year and paid $2.72 in total federal taxes. Neither is true, but I somehow suspect the IRS is not allowed to say either way. Otherwise it would seem that the IRS could just post the filings and we wouldn't have to do a song and dance with each rich republican candidate to head down the pike.

lastlib

(22,895 posts)
92. no they are not allowed to comment on taxpayers' filings publicly.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:55 PM
Aug 2012

But they can investigate if they detect discrepancies between what someone files and what they say publicly they file. And what was actually filed had better be accurate, or it's perjury and tax fraud. But they can't make public disclosures about a taxpayer's returns; and if any employees sniff around without having bona fide reason to do so, they're canned.

quakerboy

(13,893 posts)
114. Thats what I figured
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 02:21 AM
Aug 2012

So basically, there would be no real consequence to someone like Romney for lying about their tax returns, unless they put in something that someone can use to prove they are fake, or reveal something that they concealed from the IRS in their actual tax returns.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
184. We need a Bradley manning in the IRS.
Sat Aug 4, 2012, 08:31 PM
Aug 2012

Unfortunately, if someone did that, they'd end up like Manning, too: in serious, felony-level trouble. The leaker would have to be willing to sacrifice any kind of decent life...and that's asking a lot.

johnnyplankton

(348 posts)
163. You might want to Google "Playboy"
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:12 PM
Aug 2012

I'm pretty sure it's illegal in Utah to use "playboy" and "Mormon" in the same sentence...

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
32. Nah, he's in Colorado, having a strategy meeting with Karl Rove and his super pac.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:54 PM
Aug 2012

it's just slightly illegal, but even if anyone notices, no one will do anything about it.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
50. After he finds the Yeti, he's off to find Atlantis so my stars and garters, when would he find
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:10 PM
Aug 2012

time to release his tax returns? Botany.

Did you see Rachel tonight? She had a delicious teaser for tomorrow, but was just cryptic enough to leave you guessing.

Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
90. Yes, they really should leave him be!
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:41 PM
Aug 2012

This is going to upset Mrs. Romney something fierce. She needs peace and quite to maintain a sense of wellness. Please, let us all retreat from this assault before she has a spell that interferes with her dressage schedule. The cruelty must end!

RedStateLiberal

(1,374 posts)
4. CNN going after Rmoney?
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:15 PM
Aug 2012

I'll believe it when it's more than an anonymous source but I'm hopefull they've grown a backbone.

RedStateLiberal

(1,374 posts)
42. I agree but they've been covering for him a lot lately.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:04 PM
Aug 2012

I'm surprised to see them report facts that could hurt Romney because so far they've been reluctant to do that.

hay rick

(7,495 posts)
49. They have spent the past decade rebranding themselves as Fox News lite.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:09 PM
Aug 2012

Either somebody didn't get the memo or they got permission to go with the story because the coverup has proven more costly than the story. I think they want to get it out there before the Republican convention.

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
63. I've seen Dana Bash a few times- not sure I'd trust her (or any CNN pundit). Just another CNN
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:27 PM
Aug 2012

airhead IMO following her producer's orders.

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
5. I wonder what the chances are
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:17 PM
Aug 2012

that romney has his tax firm working on some new fake documents to show if and when he can no longer hold out. It seems that IRS records could be looked into - by someone. I just don't know by whom or how it would even be legal.

Anyone know?

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
20. He doesn't have to do fake.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:40 PM
Aug 2012

Any good accounting firm can file a legal amended return. In these returns, he can drop deductions, credits, exemptions and whatever, that he "legally" took when his tab was zero. He'll wind up paying a shitload of taxes, but he'll be legally sanitizing his previous returns, as the "amended" returns become "official", and the previous returns never legally existed.

The super rich get to play by a completely different book of rules than those of us who pay withholding.

unblock

(51,920 posts)
109. finally, a good explanation for a delay in releasing the forms -- assuming he eventually will.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:32 AM
Aug 2012

if you're right, then he's very carefully calculating how much $$$$ he needs to part with in order to have minimally politically acceptable tax return statistics.

and then deciding if it's worth spending that much money to make the issue go away.


but if his starting point is actually ZERO taxes, for at least a decade, then i'd guess he'd have to part with WAY more money than he's willing to part with.

unblock

(51,920 posts)
106. bad, bad, bad, yes; but actually illegal?
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:27 AM
Aug 2012

there's no law saying he can't give the media a document and claim it to be his actual filed tax return when in fact it was a complete fabrication. his LEGAL obligation is to give a correct and accurate return to the irs, he has no such LEGAL obligation to the media or to the public.


that said, rmoney would have to be nuts to do this because his political career would be over in spectacular fashion if he were found out.


if there's some kind of formal filing of tax returns on disclosure forms with the federal election commission, then he might be signing something that swears they're accurate. THAT would probably be illegal. but just giving documents to the media isn't, legally, a problem.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
130. except that, per above post, that could open an IRS investigation
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:55 AM
Aug 2012

into whether or not his real filing was for real.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
132. I ran the question past a friend of mine, who would know better than us. I was half right.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 06:42 AM
Aug 2012

He replied last night. He's the former head accountant for one of the largest corporations in the world, and he now has accounting firms in four cities.

First, my question.

"I'm having an argument with someone over Rmoney's tax returns. And
you're just the guy who can settle it.

Hypothetically, if Romney paid zero taxes (legally) for the last 10
years or so, I say to lessen his embarrassment, and scandal, that he can

have his accountants sanitize his previous returns by filing amended
returns, dropping a shitload of deductions, credits, and exemptions and
whatever else he claimed (legally), and pay a shitload of taxes to cover

it all up. Then, the amended returns become the official, legal returns,

and for all legal purposes, the previous returns never existed.

This is assuming that the previous returns were not fraudulent.

Who is right?


His reply:

Not so easy an answer....
First....he can only go back three years so the prior seven would not be
changed.
Second....yes ....he can file amended returns for the three years and he
does not have to take his justified deductions.....but.....it would have
to be done carefully so it would not be discovered by critics that he
filed a frivolous return......and have them attack his ploy of trying to
cover up to get elected. Also, the Firm that prepared them would have to
worry about filing false returns.....if they knew what he was
doing.......
Third.....The IRS would probably not attack the phony returns since he
would be paying more than he has to pay........
Fourth.....It is possible that the IRS would accept the prior seven
years returns adjusted but it would have to publish the facts....not
likely.
Several other problems come to mind........talk about
flipflopping.....wow...........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And just for the record, even with his CFO and CEO background, he identifies more with blue collar people, and hates Romney's guts.

renate

(13,776 posts)
164. that is all SUPER interesting! Thank you for finding all that out!
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:44 PM
Aug 2012

Please tell your friend thank you, too!

unblock

(51,920 posts)
142. so the irs investigates and quickly figures out he lied to the public.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 08:01 AM
Aug 2012

in theory at least, they're not supposed to talk about such matters publicly.

unblock

(51,920 posts)
155. distributing doctored returns to the public and actually filing amended returns are very different
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 10:48 AM
Aug 2012

merely distributing fake returns to the public isn't a crime.

it's heinous and he'd be toast politically if he got found out, but it's not a crime.


i agree that actually amending his returns with the irs makes an actual tax/legal mess for him.
though if he never did anything illegal and all he's doing is deciding to waive his right to use certain loopholes, he'd emerge clean -- though probably not by november. he'd just have to claim that he's correctly entitled to those loopholes, he's just changing his mind about using them.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
156. he wouldn't need to distribute fake returns unless there was something very wrong with the real ones
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 11:23 AM
Aug 2012

and:

1. I doubt very much that he would like to trigger an IRS audit at the moment.

2. there are people who will know that they are fake. They can't reveal his real returns, but they certainly can stand up and identify the fake ones as such.

So the story will smolder on, and get worse...

unblock

(51,920 posts)
160. the possibility is that there's nothing LEGALLY wrong with his returns but POLITICALLY wrong.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:00 PM
Aug 2012

completely legally paying zero taxes, for instance. it's possible all his loopholes are completely legal but politically it looks terrible.

so in theory he could decide to release tax forms that claim he didn't get fancy and take all these loopholes and paid more taxes than he actually did in an effort to look like an ordinary taxpayer.

yes, some people would know they were fake and they would surely tip reporters off, but rmoney could gamble that the accusations wouldn't be credible. after all there would be no proof.


the problem of course is that he already released the (presumably real) tax returns to the mclame campaign, and they might well spill the beans -- with at least some credibility.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
161. there's also a good possibility that he took the 2009 amnesty
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:39 PM
Aug 2012

which McCain's team wouldn't have seen, nor would they have seen the secret swiss account that led to the amnesty.

That would explain his careful word choice, that he paid all the taxes he was legally required to. He doesn't say exactly *when* he paid the taxes he was required to pay.

It also would explain his cutoff date for exactly how far back he is willing to show.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
149. Romney could give the IRS permission...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 10:10 AM
Aug 2012

To release his tax forms.

It is bound to be a confidential document where the person who's confidentiality is being protected has the right to release them.

In fact they should insist it. He should be able to draft a letter authorizing the release.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
23. If there are enough questions about his taxes, an official investigation could begin
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:43 PM
Aug 2012

After all, taxes are not private since the government sees the documents. Maybe between the dancing horse $77K deduction, the offshore accounts and the "I stopped working at Bain - oh, no, I didn't" contradiction, someone at IRS and Congress has taken note. One can only hope.

And I am wondering: if I am taking care of a close relative who has a terminal illness, and I need a three-week vacation in Hawaii this winter, is that a tax deduction, too? After all, dancing horses are.

lastlib

(22,895 posts)
95. and you don't suppose he has a little grudge against mittens.....
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:01 AM
Aug 2012

...from '08 campaign, now, do you??

jaysunb

(11,856 posts)
102. No way . Even tempered, mild mannered, always forgiving John
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:12 AM
Aug 2012

McCain Why, he'd NEVER hold a grudge....would he ?

Baitball Blogger

(46,532 posts)
12. I thought Jon Stewart was a bit harsh on Reid.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:27 PM
Aug 2012

If this turns out to be true, Stewart has some crow to eat.

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
28. I think it worked for Reid anyway...
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:49 PM
Aug 2012

He was harsh, but it got attention. Made it more dramatic that Harry doubled.

--imm

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
14. Some highly placed Dem insiders have all the poop on this.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:33 PM
Aug 2012

All of it. When the feces finally hit the blades this will make 1972's Eagleton fiasco look like a walk in the park. Mittwit is a dead man walking.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
15. "this source also personally knows the Bain source who would have access to Romney's tax record."
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:34 PM
Aug 2012

Sounds like the hounds are closing in.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
52. I suspect Mittens doesn't do his own taxes, he has CPA's etc. at Bain, etc. do it for him.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:12 PM
Aug 2012

And I think records have to be kept 7 or 10 years in case there is a question about them. Do you agree that's possible?

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
16. HA!
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:34 PM
Aug 2012

if Mitt ends up dead in the water before even a vote is cast, i will lmfao for days. this will be the most brilliant chess move ever by a president.

efhmc

(14,706 posts)
21. Not a fan of the unnamed source info. However, since it is SOOOO simple to prove that
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:40 PM
Aug 2012

the unnamed source is wrong, why not do so.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
24. the unnamed source brought down the Nixon admin so don't knock it
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:45 PM
Aug 2012

one of the worst admins in history.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
78. But 'unnamed source' can also = McCarthyism, i.e., accusing someone of something odious
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:08 PM
Aug 2012

with no evidence to back it up. I found Reid's comments a bit distasteful in that regard. However, having said that, Romney's refusal to release his returns bucks historical precedent in such a major way that Reid's comments get a pass from me.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
89. Um, Romney can release his records he hold the evidence. He's being accused of hiding
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:34 PM
Aug 2012

something in records he's hiding. This is not the same as making an allegation based on nothing which can not be disproved. Not the same thing at all. Not even close.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
98. Joe McCarthy said, "I have here in my hand
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:07 AM
Aug 2012

a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

***********

"A month or so ago, he [Reid] said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

'Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years,' Reid recounted the person as saying.

Harry Reid said, 'He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain.' "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/31/harry-reid-romney-taxes_n_1724027.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

************

In both cases, allegations quoting unattributed sources are brandished to the press. To quote our friends from Wikipedia once again, "McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

eridani

(51,907 posts)
117. So, how do you prove you aren't a Communist? Not easy, especially if
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 03:40 AM
Aug 2012

--you were a "premature anti-fascist" who signed a petition against Franco in 1936. How do you fight people who define that as "communist," even if you were never actually a party member?

How do you prove you did so pay taxes? Easy peasy. Release the tax returns. I'd say that makes quite a bit of difference.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
119. I agree that Romney can make the issue go away by releasing his returns (provided they
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:05 AM
Aug 2012

do not incriminate him or show creative accounting or some such).

What I found mildly objectionable in Reid's initial comments was his reference to some unnamed "source." If the info was so ironclad or the source so credible, why could Reid not name the source?

eridani

(51,907 posts)
126. I don't understand why he would
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:08 AM
Aug 2012

I suspect he has only circumstantial evidence and hearsay, but it is smart politically to invoke "Where there's smoke, there's fire." No downside, especially as it is so easy for Rmoney to prove Reid full of shit if that is the case.

Response to eridani (Reply #117)

Response to eridani (Reply #117)

elfin

(6,262 posts)
22. Source could be Huntsman
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:42 PM
Aug 2012

McCain or a staffer possible, but I think the snitch is a Mormon, feeling safe in talking to Reid, also a Mormon.

BSUbluNorange

(78 posts)
35. I have a major suspicion this is the case
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:57 PM
Aug 2012

Harry is a great member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints and all his kids are too. I could see a fellow member wanting to get this off their chest. Love having a fellow lds dem going mano y mano with Romney!

BSUbluNorange

(78 posts)
186. Thank you!
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 08:45 PM
Aug 2012

Look forward to meeting them. There's 500 of us in a Mormons for Obama Facebook group and we talk often, always nice to know there are others!

oldhippydude

(2,514 posts)
44. actually i'm betting he used that line multiple times
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:05 PM
Aug 2012

bragging to other 1% folks at Bains... it just seems that too many people attribute it to him to be otherwise.. sort of a "look what i did" as a mischievous child would brag..

the man seems able to shamelessly change colors, much like a chameleon.. all his professionall
career he has simply bought his way, or not answered and moved on.. he's simply arrogant enough to think he can get away with it all the way through the election

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
80. Hehe, Huntsman at one time called Romney a perfectly lubricated weather-vane.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:10 PM
Aug 2012

Gee - what a compliment.

They were supposed to have made up and Huntsman backed Romney but I don't think there's much love between the two.

You never know.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
31. Romney forgot to play nice with the media...
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:53 PM
Aug 2012

and no one likes him...cause he is a liar, animal abuser, tax evader, draft dodger, wannabee barber, cruel to people with disabilities, cop impersonator, and pension thief. I probably left a lot of stuff out. But, all it took for me to hate him is the story about Seamus.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
81. Seamus is when it started with me. My hatred of him reached the pathological stage
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:10 PM
Aug 2012

when the bullying revelations surfaced, probly b/c I was a victim of bullying long ago and have never really gotten completely over it.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
88. I got bullied a lot too.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:33 PM
Aug 2012

But that didn't set me to boiling it only put me on a slow simmer. I didn't realize how much of a simmer until Romney went to London and I have been laughing my ass off ever since. I can't get enough of his gaffes because I know every single one of them is another nail in his coffin. He might even have felony charges pending, guess we will find out tomorrow on that one.

The Seamus story is another story of bullying though, it is just that he bullied and abused an animal. It was an abusive thing to drive with him on the roof. It was over the top bully behavior to hose him off and keep driving. I learned just yesterday that being on the roof like that could have made Seamus go blind. So sad all around. He cut that kids hair, made a blind teacher walk into a door, shoves his kids faces in butter, apparently he tripped his Daughter-in-law. It just doesn't end with him. Personally I think he abuses Ann as well.

moondust

(19,895 posts)
33. Could this be a trap?
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 09:55 PM
Aug 2012

As in the Rmoney campaign using an operative to covertly feed phony info to Reid and others and then later releasing the returns showing huge tax payments to embarrass him/them and score political points?

Reid is usually pretty restrained/careful.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
57. I think that's possible. Kind of like Obama playing Trump on birth certificate.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:18 PM
Aug 2012

He didn't release it, got right wingers wound up, then crammed it right up Trump's rear.

Of course, even if it is a "trap," there's plenty of other crud on Romney.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
91. Unlikely.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:51 PM
Aug 2012

There is no good for Mittens in releasing his returns. Either he paid no taxes and is fucked, he cheated on his taxes and he's fucked, he disclosed the existence/balances of his foreign accounts and is fucked, or he was completely honest in which case they reinforce exactly how rich he is and how little he pays in taxes...and he's fucked.

He hasn't disclosed because even the best case scenario for Mitt Romney is "fucked". Minimally, we know the majority of his income came from capital gains in which case he paid taxes at a lower rate than most Americans; already know that but it will look bad for Mitt when people see the actual dollar amounts.

moondust

(19,895 posts)
105. Hmmm...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:27 AM
Aug 2012

If they have concluded that they will eventually have to release more returns and they know it will look bad anyway, they might try to lay a trap or play a trick in an effort to salvage at least a talking point about that awful Harry Reid and how wrong he was to make those wild claims.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
122. Nope--no documents involved
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:26 AM
Aug 2012

And Romney dares not release fake ones or the IRS will take notice. No one other than Rmoney has legitimate access to the returns except for the IRS, unless and until he agrees to release them. Reid would automatically regard anything from a source other than Rmoney as potentially fake for that reason.

No loss for Reid here. Rmoney loses many ways.

1. He releases the returns. Even if they are perfectly legal, people are going to be pissed that he paid far less on a percentage basis than average people pay, which is the best possible outcome here. If they are shady and reflect offshore accounts or any kind of sleaze, even worse.

2. He doesn't release the returns. Then anyone is allowed any wild guess as to what might be in them. After all, proving any wild allegation wrong is as simple as could be.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
54. this better not be some set-up
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:13 PM
Aug 2012

all I have to say is "Dan Rathers"... I don't trust this corporate media. Their profits and interests is all that matters.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
182. Good point, fascisthunter
Sat Aug 4, 2012, 03:40 AM
Aug 2012

I remember how Karl Rove engineered the Dan Rather affair.

An earlier post mentioned Rove meeting with Mitt right now.

Is Rove working behind Mitt?
That is The Question.

I hope there's not another "reverse-sting" operation going on here with Dana Bash.
If so, Bash is toast, and CNN will be humiliated back to maybe leaning more rightward.

But Romney's taxes would have to look mighty nice to The Public to make that possible.

That might be a hard trick to pull off.



We'll see.

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
59. Mr. I-Haven't-Paid-Taxes-For-10-Years wants to stick it to the 99%? I don't think so!
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:21 PM
Aug 2012

This story won't be going away -- I'm loving Harry Reid (& his source)!

krawhitham

(4,634 posts)
60. It's a trap
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:23 PM
Aug 2012

The Bain source was hired by Rove to start these rumors. So when rMoney does release his taxes no matter how bad they are as long has he did pay some tax he looks golden

sandyshoes17

(657 posts)
67. I hope not
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:43 PM
Aug 2012

But this stinks of a rove trick. I'll believe it when I see it. Been down this road before. Again I would love to be wrong.

 

doohnibor

(97 posts)
76. If if was a Rove trick....
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:05 PM
Aug 2012

The Repubs would be all a tither about Obama's tax returns, caterwauling about something so petty that the public wouldn't even want to hear anything more about tax returns. Remember, with Rove it's scoop the shit out of your own outhouse and fling it in all directions.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
70. reid has layed the trap
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:51 PM
Aug 2012

Indeed it will not be ten years without paying and Reid knows this. It is probably only loke three years and Reid is baiting him into committing political suicide by coming out and saying uh uh, see there were only three years where I didn't pay any taxes. Rmoney is screwn.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
128. Unless he paid a percentage similar to that of a middle class schmuck, he has problems.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:23 AM
Aug 2012

And we know he didn't.

It's not a trap. Still your fearful heart.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
174. Iworried it was a trap the first time I heard he wouldn't publish his tax returns.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 08:12 PM
Aug 2012

After everyone gets their nose out of joint...He'll release them and say fooled ya! Paid around 10-14% ...not 0 %
I can just hear the Rethugs and FOX cheering!

kentuck

(110,916 posts)
64. CNN should be commended for their excellent reporting.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:29 PM
Aug 2012

If there is a "source", then Harry Reid has nothing to lose. The argument is between Romney and the "source".

The danger is that if the name of the source is given and the source says I don't know what you are talking about, then it is a "he said, she said" type of story.

The bottom line is that Romney can only prove Reid or the source or CNN wrong by putting forth his tax returns and stop hiding important information from the American people. Mitt Romney is the only person that can clear up this controversy.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
131. Dana Bash just did a truly excellent investigative report
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 06:15 AM
Aug 2012

caught Eric Cantor pulling a fast one with the STOCK act, and the report resulted in the law being fixed.

However that poster at kos is misrepresenting what Bash said about this Harry Reid story. Very unfortunate imo.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
66. quote from Dana on AC360
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:32 PM
Aug 2012

Dana Bash:

"...but I did speak, I have to tell you that, uh, I did speak to one source who's very close to Senator Reid who claims to also know who this Bain investor is that Reid spoke with, and insists that this is a credible person, and this person, if we knew the name we would understand that they would have the authority and the ability to know about Romney's tax returns.

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
72. It sounds like she is making it up just to get in the middle of the story ("if we knew the name").
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:52 PM
Aug 2012

I don't trust CNN any more than Fox "news".

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
74. well, I think
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:59 PM
Aug 2012

her quote states, not that she can confirm the allegation, but that she can confirm another source who knows the person who Reid spoke with, and that source could confirm that Reid's source would be in the know about Romney's taxes .... I went to find the video to see if what the OP title states was true, because I thought it would be a bigger story if so... but the quote wasn't quite what I expected... maybe there is more floating out there than what I saw on AC360

it does sound like someone out there has the goods, but whether or not that will come to the forefront is what time will tell

I'm interested to see what Maddow has dug up for tomorrow



 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
103. So it's like: "I know a guy who heard a guy talking in a bar about a note his friend found...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:15 AM
Aug 2012

that will clear up what your wife heard me say."

My guess? This goes away because no one will step up and say "Yes, I said that" or "I'm the source and here's the proof" or "Here's the source I was quoting."

At some point the goods have to be shown, or it's no sale. And if the goods aren't shown, I wouldn't buy Harry Reid's credibility for a dollar.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
104. I'm hoping this is building to something tangible, like you said, 'here's the source...'
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:25 AM
Aug 2012

But if as many people saw Romney's tax returns at McCain's campaign as I am guessing, there is probably at least a dozen who could confirm things out there.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
110. I think the more likely scenario would be some low-level IRS employee who wants to curry favor
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:48 AM
Aug 2012

would have ALREADY passed along a thumb-drive with PDF files on it containing every tax return Romney has filed in his life (it's what I would do...). It's sitting there on the table with Axelrod and everyone else staring at it. They're all wondering how they can get it out to the public without getting busted.

My worst fear is that the Romney team is holding clean tax returns that show no wrongdoing and planning on keeping them secret until about two weeks before the election, when they'll release them all in one fell swoop.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
115. I'm hoping a reporter asks Romney- So if it isn't true, are you going to sue Reid for Libel/Slander?
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 02:50 AM
Aug 2012

I'd like to hear that answer.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
124. Even if they reveal no wrongdoing, they will damned well reveal
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 04:44 AM
Aug 2012

--that the rich have perfectly legal ways of fucking everyone else over.

ecstatic

(32,532 posts)
93. Well, this could all be resolved
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:55 PM
Aug 2012

if the guy who you're giving the benefit of doubt would just release his tax records.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
129. She is the Senior Congressional Correspondent for CNN. She knows EVERYONE on the Hill.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 05:25 AM
Aug 2012

Chiefs of staff, long-term employees, Senators, Reps, lobbyists....

She didn't get the job by being a moron. She knows her way around.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
68. So, republicans jus want to defund OUR government to take over our Country
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:45 PM
Aug 2012

pretty simple... they are traitors

 

lonestarnot

(77,097 posts)
69. I wonder if richie rich is going to be compelled to release his returns due to possible fraud? Welp
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:48 PM
Aug 2012

now wouldn't that just take the cake walk. He's trying to outshine the poor horse for annie oakley.

abolugi

(417 posts)
71. The Obama campaign
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:52 PM
Aug 2012

is playing three dimensional Chess while Romney is playing three dimensional Candy Land!!

kickysnana

(3,908 posts)
77. Then we are back to my evolving theory of the fake candidate
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:06 PM
Aug 2012

Romney was the person they were going to run for election. He got a lot of face time and not a lot of flak from other Republicans. The Olympics were in Utah and we had Sister Wives to charm and educate us all.

Romney had too many flaws to be elected and the Fundies/Catholics see him same as Pagan and might not be able to vote for him. There was/is someone waiting in the wings who cannot stand to go through the election process either such as Jeb Bush who will swoop in and save the day at the last minute, no debates, no media hounding, no total history drug up for months. Or someone else such as Ron Paul. But I am not sure they trust him either

Romney is peaking much too soon so I am not sure what plan B will be but there will be a no Romney plan B.

Brewinblue

(392 posts)
83. I'm pretty damned sure Reid KNOWS for a fact that Romney paid zero taxes for 10 yrs.
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:14 PM
Aug 2012

He is a rather prudent and cautious politician and wouldn't dare risk being wrong.

Mittens is gone ASAP, so that the Olympics can temper some of the brouhaha.

At least IMHO

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
107. While speaking on the Senate floor weeks ago, Reid mentioned the fact he paid no taxes
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:29 AM
Aug 2012

I remember it well. People didn't pay attention to it then, but he brought it up again and says he has a source. Now people are paying attention.

Reid seems pretty confident.

cindyperry2010

(846 posts)
84. well this just got funnier
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:19 PM
Aug 2012

how many do you think are actually looking at this as a story now instead of harry reid slapping mittens around

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
97. I'd like to hear an apology from Jon Stewart if this all pans out.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:04 AM
Aug 2012

I realize he's not a Democratic Party operative, but I think he sometimes goes overboard in criticizing Democratic politicians in an effort to appear fair. His suggestion that Reid was just pulling this out of his ass, in the same way right-wingers *regularly* pull wild accusations out of their asses, was ridiculous. He cited the Obama birth certificate issue as a sort of "equal but opposite" thing.

boxman15

(1,033 posts)
158. I think he was criticizing Reid's "his poor father must be so embarrassed" line more than anything
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 11:37 AM
Aug 2012

That did cross the line, I think. Had Reid not said that, I don't think he would've mocked Reid. Even if his claims end up being false (which seems less likely now), worse things have been said in politics. His line about his father being embarrassed was uncalled for, though.

kentuck

(110,916 posts)
100. This is pure conjecture on my part...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:08 AM
Aug 2012

but since Romney is having a hard time just getting his 2nd year of tax returns done for this election, why should we think he was able to have 10 or 12 years of returns done for McCain when he was being vetted for VP? Perhaps he told the McCain campaign that he did not pay any taxes for 10 years? Who was McCain's campaign manager? He would be one of the people privy to that information. Also, Senator McCain and his wife are very wealthy people and could have money invested in Bain Capital even today. If I were guessing where the story originated, this would be my guess. But it would only be a guess.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
108. could be that McCain said something to Reid a long time ago, which would fit the story
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:30 AM
Aug 2012

Something you keep in your pocket until you need it

Jessy169

(602 posts)
111. Romney must be shitting his pants
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 01:06 AM
Aug 2012

I for one do not believe that this is some kind of trap or trick being set by Romney. I started out thinking that, but watching Romney squirm and maneuver has pretty much convinced me that this issue is really causing him extreme discomfort. My guess is Romney KNOWS that what Reid is saying is true, and he knows there are other people who also know. I'm betting that Romney and his team are going crazy trying to figure out who the sources are -- which of the former trusted comrades in plundering have turned on him -- what are their motivations. The paranoia that Romney is feeling must be intense right now -- that's just a guess.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
133. I suspect it's at least 'moral' issue...his defence is searching for high ground
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 06:58 AM
Aug 2012

He has clearly worked the tax-code to his advantage, and that already makes him look like the greedy privateer that he is.

Sharing all those tax returns with the McCain campaign was an acknowledgement by Romney that the tax records are relevant to the office he seeks. Hiding them from American voters is a statement, mostly a "F-you Ameria, you aren't as important as the folks doing VP vetting for John McCain in 2008"

His defense is that he's not legally required to do what presidential candidates have done for decades. For over a decade the R's have been very supportive of obstructionist politicians willing to tell the dems F-you, and that may explain the capacity of the rightwing base to absorb the absurdity of this. Romney is building into a rampart his defense of non-disclosure of tax records which for previous candidates hasn't usually been a speed-bump. If he thinks it's important enough to make a deal out of it, we also should be thinking it's big enough to make a deal out of it.



JHB

(37,122 posts)
139. When he pulles the "legally required" excuse, hit back with "so what?...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 07:27 AM
Aug 2012

...No one's legally required to vote for you, either."

It's not about legality, it's a tradition to show the public how they conduct their affairs. A tradition, never forget, that Mitt's own father started, with 12 years of returns, and an explanation of why that many. And as you note, if it weren't an important tradition he wouldn't have given them to John McCain.

And his returns are especially relevant since he's running on his supposed acumen as a businessman.

(I say "supposed" because his line was vulture finance, not actual business-building. His expertise is in gaming the system, using tax breaks in ways not intended when they were written, using bankruptcy as a tool to break contracts, shorting employee pensions, etc.)

tblue37

(64,857 posts)
167. There is a moral difference between obeying the letter of the law and obeying the
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 06:54 PM
Aug 2012
spirit of the law, and most people are well aware of the difference.

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)
178. The Mormons don't need this garbage...
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 08:54 PM
Aug 2012

and that's my guess for at least one reason why Reid brought it out. He had to have some kind of official go-ahead. Mormons have a difficult time as it is fitting into the mainstream...in many ways...and dragging this out in such a public/global way, not good.

Response to kentuck (Original post)

 

lobodons

(1,290 posts)
116. How will the Elders respond?
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 03:08 AM
Aug 2012

Even with amended retroactive returns, the Elders might not be so forgiving when it comes to Mitts celestial Planet. Mitts planet is gone magic underwear be damned.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
141. Unless he's been shorting them too.
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 07:54 AM
Aug 2012

Mitt Romney seems like the sort of guy who would not only cheat on his taxes, defrauding his government...he seems like the sort of guy who'd cheat on his tithing, defrauding his god. (All exceptions being made to Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13 as it's obvious between God and Mammon, Mitt's chosen to worship his money.)

mainstreetonce

(4,178 posts)
152. No VP announcement
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 10:21 AM
Aug 2012

Until he sees hown the Olympic horse does?

Doesn't that sound like a potential VP doesn't want to be announced until the top of the ticket settles this problem?

gateley

(62,683 posts)
170. I'm not sure he'd be "in serious trouble".
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 07:48 PM
Aug 2012

If he worked the tax loopholes (like Exxon, GM, etc) and he did it legally, what can we do? Sure, many Americans would be disgusted, but I think the Anybody But Obama pukes would be just fine with it.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
176. Lawrence O's guests Sam Stein & Jeremy Temkin are saying something like
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 08:25 PM
Aug 2012

that. I'm preparing to be disappointed, but still kind of hoping for voter fraud in the state of Massachusetts.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
179. I'm just thinking his accountants would know every legal trick in the book,
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 08:57 PM
Aug 2012

so I'm pretty sure his ass is covered. Hope I'm wrong, though!

patrice

(47,992 posts)
180. We should appreciate better how that level of wealth creates its own universe
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 09:03 PM
Aug 2012

in which anything is possible, especially in a highly de-regulated environment that was a sieve of tax loopholes and exceptions and custom-written-&-legislated tax code to begin with even before it became more de-regulated in "our" financial sector.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
183. Will Dana Bash still have job come Monday?
Sat Aug 4, 2012, 08:27 PM
Aug 2012

money buy a network since millions will be spent on ads..If the PACs for Rmoney threaten to pulls their ads then CNN will react..Is that a fair appraisal?

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
185. Reid has set the bar too low. If Romney comes up with 15% taxes,
Sun Aug 5, 2012, 05:13 AM
Aug 2012

It will look reasonable compared to 0. IMHO.

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