Thu Aug 2, 2012, 08:38 AM

MadHound (34,179 posts)

So now we're going into Syria

"US President Barack Obama has signed a secretive order authorizing US financial and military support for Syrian rebel forces, effectively taking sides in what many observers say has become a full blown civil war between the opposition forces such as the Free Syria Army and the ruling government of President Bassar al-Assad and its military.

According to Reuters, Obama's order -- known as an "intelligence finding" -- was "approved earlier this year" and gives the CIA and other US agencies broad permissions to provide tactical support and funnel equipment to these opposition forces. The full extent of clandestine support that US agencies might be providing remains unclear.

Though the order stops short of authorizing the arming of rebels directly, it was noted that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey -- all US allies in the region and beneficiaries of large US arms deals -- are coordinating closely with US operatives and the Syrian opposition forces."
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/08/02

Now why, exactly, did Obama win that Nobel Peace Prize? It certainly wasn't for bringing peace, because here we are, getting more and more involved in the Middle East. But hey, it keeps the MIC well fed and cared for. Large arms deals for Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey, just doing business.

Meanwhile, here at home our economy is sliding back back into a recession, millions of people are homeless, unemployed, poor and getting poorer, yet we continue to spend more and more money on the military, getting into these little boutique wars where are hands are relatively clean and a tidy profit is to be made by the MIC. Yemen, Uganda, Libya, Somalia, and now Syria. When will it end? When will it become more imperative to help our own people than to make profit for corporations?

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187 replies	Author	Time	Post
So now we're going into Syria (Original post)	MadHound	Aug 2012	OP
Well then again	trumad	Aug 2012	#1
So instead of Assad kill them, we can.	MadHound	Aug 2012	#2
Uhhh--- we won't have boots on the ground in Syria.	trumad	Aug 2012	#4
Didn't have boots on the ground in Iraq for ten years,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#5
OK---if you're OK with Assa killing his own people...	trumad	Aug 2012	#12
Some despot somewhere is always killing his or her own people,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#24
i have never found the	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#35
I think that you're missing my point	MadHound	Aug 2012	#41
so if we do nothing that will stop the fighting? it hasn't so far. nt	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#44
By what right can we interfere?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#46
France interfered in our revolutionary war.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#53
Much like we do, France interfered for their own interests,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#77
Know your history.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#85
I don't rely on Wikipedia, that's why I know my history.	MadHound	Aug 2012	#87
We'll, since this is the internet I can pretty much	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#94
No, don't teach it,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#97
You said France had little to do with our revolution.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#103
Both countries also interfered in our civil war. nt	stevenleser	Aug 2012	#175
if it had brought the war to a quicker end, preserved the union and gotten rid of slavery,	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#69
You obviously don't know your history,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#76
france was certainly in the picture	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#78
It's the oil: we must keep our grip on the ME no matter what the cost, because oil is our lifeblood	NickB79	Aug 2012	#149
You know, it's going to come out that casualties went up after Obama signed off on this, don't you?	leveymg	Aug 2012	#88
Oh yes, I am sure it will be a Romney campaign tactic to say Obama is too forceful of a CINC.	stevenleser	Aug 2012	#176
I'm sure it won't be, Steven.	leveymg	Aug 2012	#178
Oh and BTW:	trumad	Aug 2012	#13
Your status as a vet has no bearing on this question,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#25
Its a very valid point. Servicepeople would much rather drones get shot at instead of them. nt	stevenleser	Aug 2012	#177
As a Vet myself	atreides1	Aug 2012	#96
We're not the world's policemen.	area51	Aug 2012	#8
he's been in power for 12 years, & his father before him. it's a wonder there are any people left	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#110
shhhh	Enrique	Aug 2012	#3
Obama did a good thing	harun	Aug 2012	#6
First of all, fighting for peace is oxymoronic	MadHound	Aug 2012	#7
All people have a right to defend themselves, it is a basic human right	harun	Aug 2012	#14
The United States isn't being attacked by Syria, so our aggression can't be styled "self defense".	Romulox	Aug 2012	#16
i think he was refering to the syrian people	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#38
This thread is about US involvement in Syria's conflict. nt	Romulox	Aug 2012	#107
The United States isn't attacking anyone in Syria.	harun	Aug 2012	#170
Then, by definition, the US isn't involved in "self defense" in Syria. It was a gaffe to mention it.	Romulox	Aug 2012	#171
I was talking about the rebels right to self defense.	harun	Aug 2012	#172
Right, but this thread is about US INVOLVEMENT in that conflict. By definition, "not self defense"	Romulox	Aug 2012	#174
Fighting of peace may be oxymoronic	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#26
So why are we the ones who are going in?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#28
If you read the article...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#32
And meanwhile, people are dying on our streets here at home	MadHound	Aug 2012	#36
I think the Syrian people would disagree with you.	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#39
Yes, establish a religious law that says to kill Americans,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#43
And because all Arabs think alike and act alike, we can predict the results...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#56
What racism?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#68
Still yours...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#74
I'm not the one lumping two disparate people into the same category,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#81
Uh...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#93
Wow, you are getting desperate,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#100
I can see...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#108
why use Afghanistan as the example when Libya is probably a closer comparison?	arely staircase	Aug 2012	#150
We intentionally funded the craziest people we could find	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#58
Did Kosovo or Libya turn into another Vietnam?	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#57
kosovo, a mafia-run state with 45% unemployment & growing radical islam, another great success	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#182
You might as well just go ahead and say it.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#183
which part do you deny, mafia-run, unemployment figures, influence of radical islam, or color	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#184
When you have a population that has been	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#186
if the 'murderous dictator' you're talking about is milosevic, he was in power 11 years, 8 as pres	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#187
Did you think Clinton was right in not helping Rwanda?	Whisp	Aug 2012	#33
And again, where was the rest of the world?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#37
how about WW2, would you have got involved if you called the shots?	Whisp	Aug 2012	#40
In WWII we were attacked,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#42
you mean We as America?	Whisp	Aug 2012	#59
What About Germany?	Liberal_Dog	Aug 2012	#65
hmm, then why did America wait so long to get into the fray?	Whisp	Aug 2012	#98
Because for the past half century we've been the world's stabilizing force	Hippo_Tron	Aug 2012	#67
And just how stabilizing has America been over the past sixty odd years?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#71
South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, and Japan (among others) would differ with your assessment	Hippo_Tron	Aug 2012	#167
You mean the multinational force in Rwanda the US deliberately hobbled?	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#101
There is no evidence that the Free Syrian Army is really primarily made up of Syrians	riderinthestorm	Aug 2012	#15
There's no evidence that the Syrian rebels are	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#60
+1.	DevonRex	Aug 2012	#62
There's evidence they include outside forces. There's evidence they're armed by outside forces.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#117
I'm for toppling murderous dictators.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#128
lol. sure you are.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#137
What do you think my true motivations are?	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#163
it's my secret.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#169
Sure there is. I don't have a lot of time today to google but here's just one story from DU	riderinthestorm	Aug 2012	#142
Ermm... a "secret" ???	ananda	Aug 2012	#9
...	n2doc	Aug 2012	#10
sigh.....	Marrah_G	Aug 2012	#21
the order stops short of authorizing the arming of rebels directly	spanone	Aug 2012	#11
Right. And those men in fatigues in Indochina? Merely "military advisors"! nt	Romulox	Aug 2012	#18
“Birmingham accents”	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#118
It looks like Obama's campaign will coincide with a new military adventure... nt	Romulox	Aug 2012	#17
Incredible isn't it?? Horrific. nt	riderinthestorm	Aug 2012	#19
Well crap.......	Marrah_G	Aug 2012	#20
I've been trying to understand this, but I can't. He must know something we don't.	HopeHoops	Aug 2012	#22
I'm pretty sure the President knows something Madhound does not.	Whisp	Aug 2012	#34
No need to know anything mysterious here.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#72
Or any of the rest of us. He is NOT a warmonger like the shrub.	HopeHoops	Aug 2012	#105
That's what much of the media said about Bush and Iraq.	girl gone mad	Aug 2012	#109
yeh, like Bush and Obama are the same person.	Whisp	Aug 2012	#114
Just what the neocon-PNACers told us to do. Right on schedule. nt	nanabugg	Aug 2012	#23
+1 Blood for profit is bipartisan. nt	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#70
I thought we were supposed to hit Iran next according to their schedule.	Lasher	Aug 2012	#84
Iran's just not going to happen. Would've figured people would get that by now. (nt)	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#104
So, how soon do you think we'll hit Iran?	Lasher	Aug 2012	#115
Tell me one I haven't heard scores of times every year for the past eleven. (nt)	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#122
Can't leftists ever argue with facts	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#27
Is that sarcasm	MadHound	Aug 2012	#29
I'm sure the article is true but not your claim	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#45
We are sending arms, money and drones to Syria,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#49
The article doesn't mention drones.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#54
How much do you want to bet that drones will be included?	MadHound	Aug 2012	#73
We don't give people drones.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#80
D'uh!	MadHound	Aug 2012	#83
Do I want to place a bet on speculation?	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#89
Speculation, educated guess, gut feeling based on our past actions,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#95
Why would I want to bet?	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#99
YOU DON'T GET IT,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#102
China and Russia use satellites to monitor us.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#106
When that's over, you could watch women's badminton	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#120
"I'm better off watching women's badmitten." Now you've moved to sexism, and misspelling sexism...	Tarheel_Dem	Aug 2012	#129
Only a couple though...I would use drones..	snooper2	Aug 2012	#173
A bit of a slip up there? I understand though, your righteous indignation got the better of you.	Tarheel_Dem	Aug 2012	#126
Nobel Peace Prize!	agent46	Aug 2012	#30
Nobel Peace Prize. What a fucking joke.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#63
Well, I've had enough of something alright.	AtomicKitten	Aug 2012	#140
Yeah, yeah, we know. It's ALL about the civilians.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#145
From my perspective, it * IS * all about the civilians.	AtomicKitten	Aug 2012	#146
Uh huh.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#148
I don't have an "RNC-approved textbook." Do you?	AtomicKitten	Aug 2012	#152
Nope. Bad analogy.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#153
lol ... speaking of self-aggrandizement	AtomicKitten	Aug 2012	#156
!!!!	dionysus	Aug 2012	#179
It is becoming very clear that the Assad regime is going to fall.	NCTraveler	Aug 2012	#31
Unrec	brooklynite	Aug 2012	#47
Maybe he should call them "Contras" to justify us getting involved in another civil war.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Aug 2012	#48
+1000	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#66
Ollie was on Fox today talking about how Iran is the real target.	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#125
I agree with you and Assad, let him slaughter his own citizens and we should do nothing.	Ikonoklast	Aug 2012	#50
Good thing the British didn't jump in on the side of the Confederacy,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#52
NIce to see you have used at least four different Straw Men arguments in this thread.	Ikonoklast	Aug 2012	#82
Nice to see you have nothing substantial in your reply,	MadHound	Aug 2012	#86
I am glad that the Syrian people will have the means at their disposal to fight Assad.	Ikonoklast	Aug 2012	#92
Which Syrian people? The country is deeply divided.	Comrade Grumpy	Aug 2012	#127
We tried to help in Afghanistan in the 80's	Nuclear Unicorn	Aug 2012	#51
Gee, is anyone surprised?	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#55
No matter how bad the situation is, we can always make it worse.	Vidar	Aug 2012	#61
DU Rec	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#64
Had enough yet, America? nt	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#75
Juan Cole: Obama signed finding to help Syria Uprising	pampango	Aug 2012	#79
That agrees with my OP	MadHound	Aug 2012	#90
Thank you for this post. nt	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#111
If it's a "secretive order", how the hell did common dreams find out about it?	Tarheel_Dem	Aug 2012	#91
LISTEN TO ME!! OBAMA IS TEH EVL!!	Robb	Aug 2012	#112
Thanks for clearing that up....	Jeff In Milwaukee	Aug 2012	#116
If you read it on the internet it must be true.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#131
I really think of us, the Obama voters, who won the Peace Prize, not Obama	librechik	Aug 2012	#113
You view the Assad and Gaddafi regimes	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#134
I was referring to earlier US efforts to end democracy, i.e., Iraq and in Palestine, earlier still	librechik	Aug 2012	#139
According to Hersh the rebels are muslim brotherhood.	Yeah Its Spin	Aug 2012	#119
“Seven countries in five years”	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#121
"ending with Iran"	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#132
you got it. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and iran. and all the war hawks at DU seem	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#135
No shit.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#154
k	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#155
You do know that's a 5 year-old article, right?...nt	SidDithers	Aug 2012	#143
yes, sid, i know.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#144
My daughter was a few weeks old when my brother flew out to meet his ship in the Gulf	Marrah_G	Aug 2012	#181
well it might bring peace & he did have success in Libya	ThomThom	Aug 2012	#123
depends on what you mean by "success". our media isn't much for reporting the aftermath	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#136
Are you saying he didn't kill his own people?	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#165
They're still "killing their own people" in Libya today.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#168
From whence comes the idea that the Nobel Peace Prize	treestar	Aug 2012	#124
+1000. Notice it's always the same group, the issue doesn't really matter. "Obama Bad"!	Tarheel_Dem	Aug 2012	#130
Yup ... another example of the diametrically opposed "Obama Bad" memes.	JoePhilly	Aug 2012	#185
They need to free up Syrian air space...	bikebloke	Aug 2012	#133
Syrians are getting pummeled by superior weaponry.	AtomicKitten	Aug 2012	#138
What could possibly go wrong? See Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Honduras, Congo, etc for precedents.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Aug 2012	#141
More blood. More blood. More blood.	woo me with science	Aug 2012	#147
See Kosovo.	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#162
This message was hidden by jury decision.	SIIHPAPP87	Aug 2012	#151
He was chivvied into this one by NATO	Warpy	Aug 2012	#157
Libya Redux.	malthaussen	Aug 2012	#158
OK	UnrepentantLiberal	Aug 2012	#166
when we blow people and shit and stuff up or support those that do it is always righteous...	Agony	Aug 2012	#159
Ah Commondreams...BBI's BFF.	great white snark	Aug 2012	#160
Ah, BBI....	Tarheel_Dem	Aug 2012	#161
knr nt	slipslidingaway	Aug 2012	#164
It's a tough call to make	davidthegnome	Aug 2012	#180

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Thu Aug 2, 2012, 08:40 AM

trumad (34,565 posts)

1. Well then again

we can just have Assad just kill his own citizens non-stop....

So now we're going into Syria

1. Well then again

2. So instead of Assad kill them, we can.

4. Uhhh--- we won't have boots on the ground in Syria.

5. Didn't have boots on the ground in Iraq for ten years,

12. OK---if you're OK with Assa killing his own people...

24. Some despot somewhere is always killing his or her own people,

35. i have never found the

41. I think that you're missing my point

44. so if we do nothing that will stop the fighting? it hasn't so far. nt

46. By what right can we interfere?

53. France interfered in our revolutionary war.

77. Much like we do, France interfered for their own interests,

85. Know your history.

87. I don't rely on Wikipedia, that's why I know my history.

94. We'll, since this is the internet I can pretty much

97. No, don't teach it,

103. You said France had little to do with our revolution.

175. Both countries also interfered in our civil war. nt

69. if it had brought the war to a quicker end, preserved the union and gotten rid of slavery,

76. You obviously don't know your history,

78. france was certainly in the picture

149. It's the oil: we must keep our grip on the ME no matter what the cost, because oil is our lifeblood

88. You know, it's going to come out that casualties went up after Obama signed off on this, don't you?

176. Oh yes, I am sure it will be a Romney campaign tactic to say Obama is too forceful of a CINC.

178. I'm sure it won't be, Steven.

13. Oh and BTW:

25. Your status as a vet has no bearing on this question,

177. Its a very valid point. Servicepeople would much rather drones get shot at instead of them. nt

96. As a Vet myself

8. We're not the world's policemen.

110. he's been in power for 12 years, & his father before him. it's a wonder there are any people left

3. shhhh

6. Obama did a good thing

7. First of all, fighting for peace is oxymoronic

14. All people have a right to defend themselves, it is a basic human right

16. The United States isn't being attacked by Syria, so our aggression can't be styled "self defense".

38. i think he was refering to the syrian people

107. This thread is about *US involvement* in Syria's conflict. nt

170. The United States isn't attacking anyone in Syria.

171. Then, by definition, the US isn't involved in "self defense" in Syria. It was a gaffe to mention it.

172. I was talking about the rebels right to self defense.

174. Right, but this thread is about *US INVOLVEMENT* in that conflict. By definition, "not self defense"

26. Fighting of peace may be oxymoronic

28. So why are we the ones who are going in?

32. If you read the article...

36. And meanwhile, people are dying on our streets here at home

39. I think the Syrian people would disagree with you.

43. Yes, establish a religious law that says to kill Americans,

56. And because all Arabs think alike and act alike, we can predict the results...

68. What racism?

74. Still yours...

81. I'm not the one lumping two disparate people into the same category,

93. Uh...

100. Wow, you are getting desperate,

108. I can see...

150. why use Afghanistan as the example when Libya is probably a closer comparison?

58. We intentionally funded the craziest people we could find

57. Did Kosovo or Libya turn into another Vietnam?

182. kosovo, a mafia-run state with 45% unemployment & growing radical islam, another great success

183. You might as well just go ahead and say it.

184. which part do you deny, mafia-run, unemployment figures, influence of radical islam, or color

186. When you have a population that has been

187. if the 'murderous dictator' you're talking about is milosevic, he was in power 11 years, 8 as pres

33. Did you think Clinton was right in not helping Rwanda?

37. And again, where was the rest of the world?

40. how about WW2, would you have got involved if you called the shots?

42. In WWII we were attacked,

59. you mean We as America?

65. What About Germany?

98. hmm, then why did America wait so long to get into the fray?

67. Because for the past half century we've been the world's stabilizing force

71. And just how stabilizing has America been over the past sixty odd years?

167. South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, and Japan (among others) would differ with your assessment

101. You mean the multinational force in Rwanda the US deliberately hobbled?

15. There is no evidence that the Free Syrian Army is really primarily made up of Syrians

60. There's no evidence that the Syrian rebels are

62. +1.

117. There's evidence they include outside forces. There's evidence they're armed by outside forces.

128. I'm for toppling murderous dictators.

107. This thread is about US involvement in Syria's conflict. nt

174. Right, but this thread is about US INVOLVEMENT in that conflict. By definition, "not self defense"