Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:29 AM
4dsc (5,162 posts)
Is this good ole GOP propaganda?Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:29 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Here's an email I received from my Iowa Senator Grassley.
Q&A on Taxes and Debt, Deficit Reduction What's wrong with this picture?
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8 replies, 649 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| 4dsc | Aug 2012 | OP | |
| CBHagman | Aug 2012 | #1 | |
| liberal N proud | Aug 2012 | #2 | |
| Historic NY | Aug 2012 | #3 | |
| Scootaloo | Aug 2012 | #4 | |
| SunsetDreams | Aug 2012 | #5 | |
| TreasonousBastard | Aug 2012 | #7 | |
| ThomThom | Aug 2012 | #6 | |
| TreasonousBastard | Aug 2012 | #8 |
Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:36 AM
CBHagman (14,024 posts)
1. I haven't analyzed the figures and indeed don't have the training to...
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...but I'd just point out that A) the last president to leave office with a surplus was Bill Clinton, and in the first term Congress passed a tax increase with zero Republican votes and B) there were multiple tax increases under the patron saint of the current GOP, Ronald Reagan and C) people don't realize how very deep the cuts would have to be to achieve what the GOP is claiming, and those cuts will mean, at least at the beginning, more layoffs, not job growth, and a shredding of programs that benefit the 98 percent.
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Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:37 AM
liberal N proud (43,767 posts)
2. This is one of those emails we will all receive from our right wing friends and family
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It will be footnoted with the message: Be sure to pass this on.
Pure right wing bullshit! |
Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:50 AM
Historic NY (19,740 posts)
3. Vedder is with The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
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a neo-conservative think tank.
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Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:53 AM
Scootaloo (5,885 posts)
4. It's potentially factual
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If we left the tax-rate as is and "cut spending," we could close the gap. Very slowly. Only if we cut the correct places.
When people talk about "cutting spending," however, what they inevitably mean is cutting spending on things that keep people in the market and thus keep that money circulating; broadly termed "welfare." Some on the left do point to the military as a good place for a cut, granted. No cut to our "welfare" will make a dent in the deficit. None. All of our entitlement programs are fucking miniscule. All these people bitching about welfare, ask 'em why they don't just quit their job and go on the dole, if it's so nice. The answer is easy; they know it's not, they're just fucking pissed that "those people" aren't starving or dead. Our entitlements are paltry, and with current prices, a family cannot exist on them. Period, they just fucking can't, it's a leaky aqua-wing in the middle of an ocean is all. Similarly those cuts to our military? Would have to be enormous to make a difference. Not that that's a bad thing in my estimation, but find me a politician who's willing to stand behind declaring they want to cut non-entitlement military spending down to 3% of the budget. Find me one motherfucker willing to do that. Another good place to cut is entitlements to the wealthy. Subsidies and tax breaks, basically rewarding the wealthy for being wealthy, needs to stop. There's no point to it, the money doesn't "trickle down," and the only jobs "created" are slave jobs in Manilla. Add to this the plain and honest fact that for many of the wealthiest people in the land, even IF they bypassed the loopholes and handouts, would still pay less in taxes than many middle-class earners? That's just a fucked-up system. The wealthy need a heavy tax hike, and there do need to be reforms in how the money is spent. We can't really afford to spend trillions on blowing shit up, and we can't afford wealthfare, either. |
Response to Scootaloo (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:08 AM
SunsetDreams (8,299 posts)
5. +1000 Very well said
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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:17 AM
TreasonousBastard (20,932 posts)
7. One small problem is that...
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the Pentagon is our last real jobs program. The only large military cuts that won't result in massive job losses here, and high paying ones at that, would be stopping overseas operations and many base closings. That's a lot of money in itself, but hasn't been so easy in the past. And the job loss numbers are iffy even there because of the amount of US made stuff we send to overseas bases. (our bombs aren't made in China)
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Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:29 AM
ThomThom (1,390 posts)
6. What is wrong with this picture? The Clinton Administration
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Did they just skip that balanced budget and paying down debt time. Also the pre-Raygun years where taxes on upper incomes were high and the middle class did very well.
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Response to 4dsc (Original post)
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:33 AM
TreasonousBastard (20,932 posts)
8. The first question is bullshit because...
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it doesn't seem to acknowledge the acceleration of federal spending. If a million is spent on a highway project, that million will buy stuff and pay wages that will increase economic activity and generate new tax revenue. So, that 17 cents doesn't go down a debt hole, but is eventually recovered. It is also an aggregate number over half a century which includes three expensive wars and several recessions.
And, it doesn't put the blame on a Congress that just can't help buying votes by authorizing bullshit projects to get support and votes. Some ridiculous spending is to be expected in anything as large as the US budget, but a lot of the giveaways, perhops most, are political and not economic. Besides, as the Soviets proved, nobody is smart enough to sit in a capital city and properly decide how to allocate money across a nation. The other stuff about not taxing the rich is partly true, but even with the low tax rates they have now the loopholes are incredible. Some are screwed if the income falls into the wrong box while other get away with what would be thievery if it wasn't legalized. Rewriting the tax laws is the Nirvana we'll never reach, but at least some serious attempt should be made to equalize things. Taxes should be something you should be able to anticipate with a bit of accuracy without a crystal ball. |

