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Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:21 AM

DU is not representative of America any more

When I landed here over ten years ago it was.

But after Bush became president I tried warning posters here and friends I knew what was about to happen and what to do about it because I had survived through something very similar during 8 years of Reagan and I was well aware what was about to happen and I began to prepare for it early on.

My wife and I went from upper middle class to dirt poor during the 1980's so it was like deja vu to my wife and I. And when I say poor, I mean poor. Real poor. Welfare poor. Soup kitchen and food stamp poor. That poor. So we were pretty sure what was coming.

When Bush became president we were prepared for what was about to happen. Tried telling our two grown children what was about to happen too. One listened. One didn't. The one who listened did pretty good for herself. The one who didn't ended up bankrupt and in deep stuff with no end in sight for her. I had friends and family who I tried to tell too. Some of them listened and held their own. Some of them ignored what I was trying to tell them and they kept spending like it couldn't ever end for them. But it ended.

Same thing happened at DU. We used to have a lot of blue collar middle class posters here. But most of them are gone now. They lost their homes. Their Internet connections. They lost everything. And they are all pretty much gone from DU now.

Most of those posters stopped posting here over ten years ago. It wasn't their fault. They just didn't understand what was coming. Maybe they were too young? Or they weren't really effected by the 1980's and never thought it could happen to them until it was too late.

The majority of DUers we have left here now are upper middle class white collar workers who were able to weather the initial storm and hold on until now. But even some of them are in trouble now.

That is what happened.

Don

81 replies, 12523 views

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Arrow 81 replies Author Time Post
Reply DU is not representative of America any more (Original post)
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 OP
Scuba Aug 2012 #1
liberal N proud Aug 2012 #2
notadmblnd Aug 2012 #3
hobbit709 Aug 2012 #4
Javaman Aug 2012 #13
notadmblnd Aug 2012 #74
Scootaloo Aug 2012 #5
lunatica Aug 2012 #6
fasttense Aug 2012 #7
lunatica Aug 2012 #8
Bohunk68 Aug 2012 #9
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 #11
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #22
raouldukelives Aug 2012 #50
Le Taz Hot Aug 2012 #10
SoCalDem Aug 2012 #70
RagAss Aug 2012 #12
RC Aug 2012 #21
CrispyQ Aug 2012 #44
bvar22 Aug 2012 #67
jannyk Aug 2012 #78
SkyDaddy7 Aug 2012 #14
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 #24
LynneSin Aug 2012 #15
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #19
Downwinder Aug 2012 #16
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 #25
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #17
LynneSin Aug 2012 #18
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #26
LynneSin Aug 2012 #27
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #41
andlor Aug 2012 #20
bluescribbler Aug 2012 #23
redqueen Aug 2012 #28
SunsetDreams Aug 2012 #29
Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #30
Raster Aug 2012 #72
bupkus Aug 2012 #31
dipsydoodle Aug 2012 #32
Edweird Aug 2012 #33
snooper2 Aug 2012 #34
Quantess Aug 2012 #35
Johonny Aug 2012 #36
Jeff In Milwaukee Aug 2012 #37
rrneck Aug 2012 #38
flamingdem Aug 2012 #39
marmar Aug 2012 #40
bayareaboy Aug 2012 #42
mamayo Aug 2012 #43
Rozlee Aug 2012 #45
xmas74 Aug 2012 #46
ananda Aug 2012 #47
kentuck Aug 2012 #48
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #53
NNN0LHI Aug 2012 #54
Johonny Aug 2012 #64
grasswire Aug 2012 #65
kentuck Aug 2012 #66
coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #49
bunnies Aug 2012 #51
zzaapp Aug 2012 #52
kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #55
wicket Aug 2012 #56
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #57
DainBramaged Aug 2012 #58
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #62
DainBramaged Aug 2012 #63
lunasun Aug 2012 #59
Odin2005 Aug 2012 #60
nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #61
TBF Aug 2012 #68
bvar22 Aug 2012 #69
Liberal_in_LA Aug 2012 #71
hughee99 Aug 2012 #73
MellowDem Aug 2012 #75
Warpy Aug 2012 #76
JI7 Aug 2012 #77
w8liftinglady Aug 2012 #79
Major Hogwash Aug 2012 #80
CoffeeCat Aug 2012 #81

Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:28 AM

1. Sorry for your troubles; thanks for your post. Agree in general, though I haven't been here as long.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:29 AM

2. Evolution

Most of what you say is correct, and this site has evolved. I joined in 2004 as part of campaigning to get rid of bu$h then.

Are the changes here bad? whose to say, it's just different.

I am approaching 8 years as a member, my star status is 8/20 or something like that, I don't know if I will be able to renew, I may just become a shadow member and tolerate the advertising. Not because the place is no longer what it was, but for personal reasons.

I graduated college in the 80's and could not find a job for 2 years. I understand dirt poor. It has taken 30 years to recover from Reagan and survive bu$h. I don't think I could make it through a Romney style America.

DU will continue to evolve and that is probably necessary to insure it's survival.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:30 AM

3. I'm not upper middle class

have gone fom being upper to poor. There was a time when all I had to say, is: I want, and it was mine. Gone from making over 100k to about 16k. I'm still here.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:34 AM

4. I started with nothing and I still got nothing.

I'm better off than a lot of people but that' not saying a lot. I saw what the future would be under Nixon. Reagan just accelerated what was already started.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:37 AM

13. +1 nt

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:27 PM

74. That's what I tell myself too. There are many more who have it worse.

I have a roof over my head and I can pay the utilities. I still have my parents, my sisters and my son.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:40 AM

5. Just thought you might like to know...

At no point in my life have I been securely "middle class," much less upper middle class. I've lived on the street, I've lived in the woods, I've killed my own food, and there have been some, shall we say less than legal business opportunities in my time. And I won't be 30 until this December.

Don't bet your grocery cart on DU being the toehold of exclusively white-collar yuppie-types.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:52 AM

6. I've managed to survive so far by the skin of my teeth

I saw it coming too and planned for it. I use up my retirement to pay off debt and to stay afloat. then was laid off, went through bankruptcy and through the foreclosure process but managed to get work, and get a loan modification.

What I didn't count on was that this economic situation would continue. I always thought that if I could manage to tread water for a short time when the economy went bust that it would right itself and I could start rebuilding. I'm still OK, but there doesn't seem to be any better times in sight.

I consider myself among the lucky ones. It could have easily gone the other way for me too. It still might. Seeing it coming doesn't mean one can survive it and surviving a little longer than others doesn't mean much either if someone like Romney gets elected.

It hurts me profoundly to think of the DUers who have dropped out because of poverty or worse.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:53 AM

7. We use to be very well off.

I was sending 2 kids to college and still able to afford almost anything I wanted. But then the crash hit. Neither my husband or I have had a job since 2008. We had to start farming our land in order to make ends meet. It's a business now and we are constantly trying to develop it. But it's a lot of work, very physically intensive, and the work never seems to end. There is a very small profit margin but it is something to live on.

It's going to get worse even with Obama. The banks are now in worse shape than before 2008, and the corporate and government corruption has increased sevenfold. There are some really rough times ahead, the storm is not over yet.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:00 AM

8. I truly wish you the best of luck

Because when you do your best the only thing that's left to help out is luck. Good luck fasttense. You're probably far ahead of others in survival skills by growing your own food.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:13 AM

9. I've lurked for at least

10 years and just started posting this past year. It would seem that by the time I read the threads that most of what I thought was already posted. However, that being said, I don't think DU has ever been representative of the country as a whole. I think we have been to the left of the general population, especially where I live in Upstate NY near Albany. Maybe it's just living out here int he country where folks are usually towards the conservative side. I have lived through Rotten Ronnie and Der Chimp. I lived through Nixon and the inflation. Now retired, I worry about making the taxes on my property and having a house to live in, because on my SS I couldn't afford an apartment. My mortgage got paid off when my partner died, it was more of an advantage than leaving it in a mutual fund (Thrivent). And now, what is left in that fund has to go for back taxes. It is time to go for a reverse mortgage just to be able to keep the property taxes at bay. That will get me about 20 years worth of taxes, if I live that long. But, it is difficult to live on just $799 a month. If I got someone to live with, then it would create problems with Medicaid and HEAP. Don't tell me that those of us at the bottom of the ladder don't pay taxes. Fuck the Cons and the horse they rode in on, maybe we can get a railroad tie and run the bastids out of town. Hit the chicken coop for feathers.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:29 AM

11. DU is still to the left on social issues

Economic issues not so much.

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:10 AM

22. Well, I'll challenge that. I frequent a fair number of forums and groups and don't see that at all.

 

There are close to (but not) no posts in support of anything rMoney is intent on doing to this country. The DU community is dead set against rMoney's Bush III policies and while not everyone supports what Obama is doing, I think it's universal (minus trolls) that we all prefer Obama's approach to the economy over rMoney's.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:13 AM

50. It seems as long as some can share in the profits.

They are content to go along for the ride. You can't really blame them. It is a big, scary world out there and utilizing the stock market is quick way to accumulate big bucks. I guess you just have to put aside whatever personal moral or ethical labels you have placed on yourself in lieu of money. To choose to help destroy the climate, to profit from war crimes, to do the best you can to ensure more & more of the world is kept in bondage to be slaves for the corporatist dreams and far less is left for the inheritors of our selfish excesses.
But as long as it doesn't involve someones personal net worth or ability to purchase the latest Apple product they generally will rally for the health of our oceans, forests and animals and the idea of fair trade.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:14 AM

10. How could you possibly know that

"the majority of DUers we have left are now upper middle class white collar workers"?

Just because people have internet access doesn't mean they're well off. Internet access is essential to finding jobs and some may very well be posting from their local libraries.

My husband's business went belly-up in 2005 and we've been living very precariously since then. My husband's been out of work for almost 3 years now and I've been out for over 2 years. We have a 15% unemployment rate here so no jobs are even in sight. We "weathered the storm" by cashing in our life savings and retirement. Now we're barely surviving month to month hoping my husband gets one more contract to tide us over for another month.

And I can't tell you how fun it is being severely asthmatic and living with no medication in an area that has the worst pollution in the nation. Some days all I can do is sit in one place and not move. I'm not sure why you're making the assumptions you are but I assure you, at least in my case and apparently others', it's absolutely the opposite.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:25 PM

70. and lots of old-timey DUers got the boot over the '08 primary

Many of them did not go willingly, but their frustrations & tempers got the best of them back then, I suspect that many of them have returned with a new moniker.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:34 AM

12. Actually, DU is not representative of DU anymore.

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Response to RagAss (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:08 AM

21. Correct.

 

DU is becoming 3rd way. DU is DLC. DU is becoming more and more, Right of Center.
Democratic Underground is no longer a Left of Center, Liberal web site. It has been pushed and pulled to the Right, along with the rest of the country.

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Response to RC (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:52 AM

44. Truth.

So many policies that DUers would be outraged about if a repub president were doing them.

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Response to RC (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:04 PM

67. True dat.

DU is no longer "underground".
It has become Gentrified and Centrified
... Upscale Suburban with Portfolios
who worship at the the Altar of the Invisible Hand,
and believe that if the FreeLoaders are forced to BUY Health Insurance,
their premiums will go down.








You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to RC (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:08 PM

78. That's the truth! nt

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:40 AM

14. We have lost a lot of Blue Collar folks...

to the idiocies of FOX "News" & Talk radio propaganda as well! I know several! I live in Georgia where folks use to love FDR & admit what he did to build up the middle class in this country...Now folks consider him a Communist & Socialist just like they do all Democrats & that kind of garbage thinking came from the Right Wing propaganda of FOX "News" & Talk Radio! The Republicans over the 30yrs have used race & Christianity to convert many middle class & below blue collar workers into hating the Democratic Party & I have no idea how long it will take to reverse this.

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Response to SkyDaddy7 (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:12 AM

24. Might not have been so much FOX "News" & Talk Radio, as something else

Might have been a lot of blue collar Democrats noticed a lot of their white collar counterparts were no longer supporting them any more.

I know I sure noticed that.

Used to be a time when we would help each another.

Then one day I noticed a lot of white collar workers were no longer supporting me by purchasing what I manufactured. They said what we were building wasn't good enough for them any more.

So when my pension began being cut due to that, I also noticed a lot of those same white collar workers had no qualms about suggesting raising my property taxes to keep themselves well paid. But then I began looking around a lot of them couldn't meet those same standards of quality on their own jobs. They couldn't withstand the same level of scrutiny they were putting on us.

See what happened?

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:45 AM

15. Could you please let me know when my 'Upper Middle Class' Status kicks in

I'm all for it!

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:05 AM

19. When you run out of staples.

 


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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:59 AM

16. Hang in there Don. We haven't hit bottom yet.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:15 AM

25. Shoot man, you are talking to someone who was laid off from his job for six years

I am well aware we haven't hit bottom yet.

I have seen this movie before.

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:00 AM

17. I haven't been with DU that long, but I remember the Reagan disaster and most probably still do.

 

Someone had a DU poll (on DU2) asking for age ranges and it tilted pretty far to the higher end. I'm 49. I was 5 months shy of voting in 1980. Even then, I knew enough about what was going on to know Reagan would be a tragedy. Bush 41 wasn't much better. Things were going really well under Clinton, but then we got the shrub. If you read a diverse selection of news sources, you'll understand (as I'm sure you do) that Obama has made a lot of headway despite the Republicans. rMoney would just be another disaster.

As for the blue collar middle class posters, personally I think we have a lot of them who are very active. I won't mention names out of respect for privacy, but what many of us are going through and have been through fits your description of the "long-time DUers". And Don, I don't see indications of "upper middle class white collar workers" unless you mean the under $100K crowd, and then I qualify. But I also spent three years running my own handyman business when those white collar jobs were few and far between (thank you shrub). I've changed toilets, fixed drywall, installed doors, replaced electrical equipment, installed mailbox posts, installed a chain link fence, and all of the other crap that comes with the position. I enjoyed that, and yes, that was blue collar. It was hard work, didn't make much profit, and filled with the satisfaction that comes with helping someone else and seeing the appreciation in their faces.

We're still here.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:01 AM

18. I remember Reagan very clearly

May he rot in hell forever and eternity

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:23 AM

26. I'm sure he has a very warm seat.

 

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:25 AM

27. I hope it's burning his ass to dust

Just saying!

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:24 AM

41. I'm pretty sure his ass, along with everything below the neck, is already dust.

 

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:07 AM

20. +1

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:11 AM

23. Blue collar worker here.

I'm definitely not upper middle class. Still working OT to pay off debt I accrued while unemployed two years ago.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:29 AM

28. Don't know about income, but DU has always been way left of the general public.

I think people left after the dem administration wasn't what they expected. So despite having no clear picture of income demographics and how it might have changed in that respect, I think it's definitely changed simply because some people who expected a faster push to the left have moved on.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:31 AM

29. What is this?

I can't understand how you could possibly know the personal finances of "the majority of DUers."

I am definitely not upper middle class, and I wouldn't even profess to label what someone else's situation is. I can only speak for myself. To make a blanket statement like that is kind of divisive, sorry to say.

I think your message about the economy and the Reagan and Bush years is spot on, but you went off message speaking for the majority of DUers, why they left, and what our personal finances are, and what kind of jobs we have.




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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:31 AM

30. Lots of unfounded assumption in this OP.

Hearing a straight person claim they did oh so much in the 80's AND that others did nothing makes me want to scream. Many of us on DU lived through Reagan, not just you. Many of my friends actually did not survive Reagan and his policies, they are dead and buried. You and I are not dead. We are not the ones who paid the price of prices.
During the 80's people I know were active and courageous and they built from scratch the organizations to cloth and feed and transport the sick. We started the fist demonstrations against Insurance companies and demands for fair health care. Agencies and organizations were built that did and still do make progress happen, still save lives and reduce suffering. To deny those things is just wrong.
I will stop now before I get rude.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:43 PM

72. I moved to Dallas in 1981, along with my best friend. We had a circle of friends that were....

....much more than friends. We were family. One of my favorite pictures from 1989 is 15 of us getting ready to go to a party. Four of us are still alive.

Oh yes, I remember Reagan and his policies. May he burn in hell forever.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)


Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:32 AM

32. I never considered it to be so in the first place.

.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:38 AM

33. Blue collar here.

 

As bad as things may have gotten for me over the past 7 years,(I lost my business, house and wife) it was a cakewalk compared to my first 20. I am particularly adept at survival. (I lived in my Suburban for 8 months.) I am working towards "bullet proofing" my life where I can live on next to nothing and still have a home and a piece of dirt I can call my own. I have a plan and I'm working it.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:43 AM

34. DU is mostly older white folks it's never been representative of America LOL

How many black males between the ages of 20-35 post here?

What's the percentage of hispanics?

And blue collar workers have never been fully represented here because they um, Have to go out and work on a fucking roof or sewer system, they don't have time to tap away at a keyboard from an office like me.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:44 AM

35. Baseless speculation on your part.

I hope that doesn't sound rude. I appreciate most of your other posts.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:49 AM

36. Are you saying White Collar workers aren't American?

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:50 AM

37. We've always been to the left on most issues

Hey. It's a website for Democrats. Of course we're going to skew left of the general population (which unfortunately cannot ban Republicans as easily as we can here on DU).

But that being said, I would be very interested in seeing DU conduct more-or-less scientific survey of its members to get some idea of our demographics. I sense that we're more affluent and more white collar that rest of the Democratic Party, but I don't know that for certain.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:51 AM

38. My adult working life started with Reagan.

I started out in a hole, and I didn't have time to claw my way out of that one before the next debacle. The truth is that there has been no surcease in the looting of America. If you want anything other than to line the pockets of those above you, forget it. The only variable in the last thirty years has been the rate of upward wealth transfer.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:11 AM

39. Upper middle class white collar?


I don't notice an upper middle class slant here, is there much of such a group left in these times?
If so they'd be too busy working to hang out on DU, imo.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:24 AM

40. "The majority of DUers we have left here now are upper middle class white collar workers"


Where is this coming from?


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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:27 AM

42. My heart goes out to you all ...


who think that some folks have it different.

I was about middle class for about 15 minutes in 2000. grew up in working class union work railroad work as my father did and am now close to 65. worked as a union steward then a volunteer when I had to retire.

life seems to be tough to all of us at the bottom end, but please don't take it out on me.

I personally don't profess to know the other posters here but I do know that some are nice and some, a very small amount are not so nice.

When this happens to me I usually go out and make something and get away from de computer. Of course that is me, I don't want profess to you.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:32 AM

43. like you, Don

we used to be upper middle class and are now trying to exist on SS and SS disability. When Reagan was elected, I was scared of what he might do and he did his best to prove me right. As far as W, there was something strange from the start. I live in NH, the land of early primaries. In 2000, I was ready to support McCain and then out of no where, W emerged. What we heard here was that no one else had a chance now running against W and the basically he was a shoe in. The media carried this message. And, they were correct considering the farce his eventual election was.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:54 AM

45. I'm so sorry for your hardships, Don.

Republicans have driven us off a cliff. Obama is like a crane trying to hoist us up, but Rethugs have a huge pair of scissors around the lifting line, just ready to send us crashing down again. The damage done to the economy is so profound, that I don't think it can be repaired in years. If we had politicians that stood up to the oil companies and took it on themselves to vote to rearrange for a green technology overhaul of the transportation system and energy grid and to give contracts to those jobs created to small businesses instead of corporations, it would be a jobs boom like no other.

If...

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:02 AM

46. Not middle class white collar

but lower income blue collar. I've tried to keep expenses low over the years-for me, that was a way of life.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:04 AM

47. Too true.

It's a tough world for the 99ers.
I do expect that many of them,
including our fellow Dems, have
lost a great deal.

The stress of being poor is tremendous.
It's pure hell. I know what that's like.
Even though I've never been dirt poor
on welfare, I grew up in a large family
where my mother belonged to a church
with a large network of sharing people.
Nearly everything we got was hand me
down and used, and my mom figured out how
to get bargains on everything. Not only
that, but she made sure that we knew poor
people and understood what being poor means.
Also, some of our school friends were dirt poor,
and we weren't protected from any of it.

See, people like Bush and Romney never went
to school with poor people; never made friends
with the poor; never played with poor people or
saw their parents making friends with them.
It's a horrible disconnect and it leads to them
being able to believe terrible lies about the poor
and poverty, the kind Reagan and his ilk were fond
of, like the welfare queen driving a Cadillac and stuff
like that.

We need to get to know our poor people, as one of us.
There but for the grace of God...

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:07 AM

48. America is not representative of America anymore...

We all became stockholders and watchers of Wall Street. We stood by as America invaded other countries and tortured people, contrary to all our good senses. We watched the politicians give huge taxcuts to the wealthy and run up the debt to the point of no return. We watched them de-regulate the banks and rob us blind. And we did nothing. Even as the rich got richer and the poor and middle-class got even poorer. We watched as our justice system fell apart and no one at the top was ever prosecuted for their crimes.

Here at DU, many of us tried to change what was happening. We marched, we wrote letters, we screamed, but to no avail. So now, we find much of DU like the rest of America that is left. Some are well-off, some are middle-class, and some are barely holding on.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:21 AM

53. We've been a nation of suckers for generations now. Too many of Don's compatriots fell

 

for the scam. The working class subsidized this march to neo-feudalism in exchange for permission to be ignorant, racists, sexists, and secure in their fear of everything and everyone not just like them.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:23 AM

54. We don't take care of each other any more

We used to.

Now it is everyone for themselves.

That is the bottom line.

Don

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Response to NNN0LHI (Reply #54)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:41 PM

64. This I have to agree with sort of.

I know too many young people that hate republicans, but they are in love with Ron Paul and libertarian ideas. These are young < 25 year olds mostly working blue collar jobs. They have nothing to gain from Ron Paul's ideology yet many of them have grown up and lived in a society where government is not interested in them at all. On the other hand most of these people care about each other as much as people did in the 70s. I don't think people changed, I think their belief in having mechanisms that work for them has. Today so many people see government as a thing that doesn't work, won't work and has never worked and the money they put into it as money that is preventing them from improving their lives on their own. People think that way about unions too. I mean in the 20-40s the big discussion liberal vs. conservative was if government or private charity should be the great organizational forces in a persons life. Today people don't even talk like they believe we should have organizational forces in society. Today it's screw that I need that money for me because it isn't like your going to use it for any good anyways. I don't know how you get people to talk like a community again. Although I believe Clinton and Obama do talk that way. Even if Romney and conservatives twist their meaning into class warfare. Labeling people white, blue collar is not interesting. Why the young don't believe in societies ability to form societal frameworks is interesting. I think it is frustrating right now to push back on 40 years of Reaganomics and Ownership society talk.

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Response to Johonny (Reply #64)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 02:57 PM

65. tell these youngsters to read Ron Paul's proposed budget changes

I read his document the other day.

It will scare the bejabbers out of you.

I know one of those youngsters; he said "I like Ron Paul -- I don't know much about his policies except that he wants to cut foreign aid and I agree with that."

There ya go.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #65)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:03 PM

66. Choosing Ron Paul shows how really uneducated they are...

They have a surface knowledge of politics, where they believe both Parties are the same. This is much the same rationale behind the OWS movement, in my opinion.

They like for others in their peer group to think they are somehow different, they don't believe in the old Democratic or Republican Parties of their parents. The old saying about "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is very true in this instance.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:12 AM

49. Solidly working class Dem Socialist here. I joined DU in 2003 in the run-up

 

to Operation Shocking and Awful and think DU was always more left-leaning and progressive than America or the Democratic Party in general. I'm no sociologist, though, so this is just my feeling.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:16 AM

51. lol. I cant even see the "upper middle" from my class. nt

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:17 AM

52. It's a very sad

 

economomic state of affairs right now to be sure. In my line
of work, there are companies closing everyday. But I have to
remain optimistic about things turning around...I think they will.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:35 AM

55. I'm defintely not upper middle class. I was raised middle middle class,

and don't have the lifestyle my parents did. I'm lower middle class, but with the recession my income is near poverty level.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:39 AM

56. Been here since 2001

Not going anywhere.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:39 AM

57. Don, we are blue collar

Have not been upper class.

And we know.. We are also very much pro labor...careful there.

Now du has changed...there are many things I dare not post here anymore, even when I have been very right in the past. We even have a core of stalkers. That's how it's changed.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:43 AM

58. The majority of DUers remaining aren't Union members or Union friendly

and for that we as a communiy are poorer.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #58)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:53 PM

62. Yup, the pro-Toyota crap is disgusting.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #62)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:56 PM

63. Nissan is negotiating with the UAW in (shhhh) secret

Gosen is no dummy. The plants in France are unionized. We would be thrilled to welcome them to the family.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:44 AM

59. what is left here now are upper middle class white collar workers

I would also add "a whiter and older crowd" too, but still usually more left than the average Joe
which is a good thing!

that's what I pick up from the postings at least........ could be way off
who knows??????

but can sure spot the freepers and check the sites occasionally where they mock DU once in awhile

so dig that whoever posts here is pissing off the RW enuf for them to respond

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:40 PM

60. DU is a very middle class, "bourgeois", place.

As can be seen by the fact that things like pornography, smoking, breast feeding, and pit bulls generate flame wars but labor issues drop rapidly.

As someone who grew up in a poor rural area the mentality of a lot of DUers is quite frankly alien to me.

The Democratic Party since 1968 has been taken over by middle class "Latte Liberals" who are clueless about issues working class people care about, which is how the DLC took control of the party.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #60)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:43 PM

61. I got a question for ya

what is the union membership right now? DU is reflecting the country, sadly, in that sense.

Chalk that to the reagan years, reap, sow, and all that.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #61)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:11 PM

68. You're both right -

DU is bourgeoisie ... and you are right Nadin that it's been the past 30 years of hell that has made it so.

Unfortunately the latte liberals are the only ones with money to give to the dem party, that is why they've seized control. I was hoping we might be able to change in this country without a revolution but that was probably naive. Given that union membership is down around 10% we either start ramping up there or we prepare ourselves for what is to come.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:21 PM

69. You have a point.

Centrist Harry Reid (!) has an Appreciation Thread high up on the Greatest Page today.
THAT would have NEVER happened on the Old DU.

Some of us heeded the Warning Signs,
moved to The Woods,
and started growing our own food before the Big Crash of 2007.

----bvar22 & Starkraven
living well on stuff we learned in the 60s.



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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:28 PM

71. There are dirt poor posters here, homeless one's also. I've seen their posts.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:44 PM

73. If the DU was ever representative of America, people wouldn't come here.

They wouldn't come just to rehash conversations they have in everyday life. In a country where 75% of the people don't even bother to vote, people come to the DU to have conversations, discussions or arguments that they can't have in "everyday America". The DU, by it's very nature, is far more political than America in general, and while I disagree that it was ever representative of America, I can see where economic factors may have lead to a decrease in diversity here.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:42 PM

75. Your post is naive and divisive...

DU was never "representative of America". Find me an online forum, much less a political forum, that is.

And now you imply, based purely on speculation, that it is for upper middle class white collar workers.

So you have fondly reminisced of a "golden age" that never was and at the same time created a scapegoat that helps divide people based on, well, nothing.

That is what happened.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:45 PM

76. I fell into poverty in the ugly aughts, not enough to eat poverty.

The one luxury I kept was a grandfathered in, cheap DSL connection so I'm one of those working stiffs who was here when it started and I'm still here.

I knew what was coming, too. I tried to warn people here and elsewhere. Mostly my warnings were ignored because human nature tends to think that the economic conditions today are the permanent ones and nothing much will change. Those of us who are old and cynical realize that economic conditions are the one thing that can be counted upon to change, and quickly.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:47 PM

77. DU has never been representative of America , the reasons you give are the least of it

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:11 PM

79. Honey...I've been stuck at The Dallas Morning News.

It's challenging.
I'm in the background here....
sollidarity.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:16 PM

80. Good post, Don.

I, too, had quite a few friends stop posting on the internet after Bush was selected by the Supreme Court to be in the White House.
Many of them didn't like the Patriot Act, and they didn't like the idea of the federal government listening to everything they said on these forums.
A lot of my friends on those forums were veterans, many, many of them were Vietnam veterans, and they could see the end of the America they knew as kids when they served in Vietnam and that our country was coming to an ugly, horrible ending.
Some of them came back briefly to post on those forums on the internet to warn all of their friends about the ruthless lies the Bush administration was telling about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq during Bush's rush to war.
But, it did no good, the war was started and continues to this day.

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Response to NNN0LHI (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:29 PM

81. No one wants to hear...

...about upper-mid class problems, because it sounds like whining when so many others have it worse. The thing is, we are upper middle class and we are in hell. I was a stay at home mom and dh had a six-figure salary. Then dh was laid off and couldn't find work for six months. New job was a 20 percent pay cut with a worse healthcare plan that we pay a chunk for--when we paid zero before. 401k match is minimal.

Yes, I appreciate what we have. No I'm not whining. However, the new normal has affected us greatly. We burned through a good chunk of savings when we had no income for six months. We are trying to build savings again, but it is tough with the
Income decrease, healthcare expenses,soaring food prices and high gas prices--not to mention the $1,300 monthly student loan payment.

I think most people--regardless of where the fall on the income strata--are not doing as well and have had to make changes. I think most people are terrified.

We are talking about downsizing, moving into a condominium and chucking the suburban nonsense. The pressure to have a frickin lush green lawn so you don't destroy the neighborhood beauty--seems like a ridiculous joke. I'm sick of it all. I'm sick if worrying.

People can smirk all they want, but the truth us that the American dream is crumbling for the majority if people who aren't in the top 10 percent. I saw on the news tonight a national story about food banks and how they are seeing more people who were once upper-middle class. It's a big trend.

I believe it. I really believe it. We survived the first punch, but we could not weather another six months of unemployment. I think there are many who survived the first hit, but they're hanging on by a thread. They'll be knocked out cold in a second hit.

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