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Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:07 AM

No taxes for ten years?!?!?!? The gig is up, Mr. Mitt Romney.

Harry Reid hears as much from a Bain Colleague of Romney's. Here's the Huffington Post story:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/31/harry-reid-romney-taxes_n_1724027.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

This information is, of course, third hand. But even if it simply resembles the truth, Romney might not be able to bounce back from such a blow. And there are 2 good reasons:

1. The returns will expose him for an incredibly wealthy man who has deliberately avoided public responsibility (which will sanger the electorate and reinforce the larger public narrative of the massive shift of wealth to the upper 1%)

and

2. Maybe even more troubling, returns will show that Romney was such a poor planner and thinker that he either didn't realize how the public would react to his tax returns (i.e., no foresight) or his foresight was clouded by his inexplicable greed. (Do we want a president of either stripe with his hand on the till(er)?

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Reply No taxes for ten years?!?!?!? The gig is up, Mr. Mitt Romney. (Original post)
skip fox Aug 2012 OP
JustAnotherGen Aug 2012 #1
skip fox Aug 2012 #2
EOTE Aug 2012 #12
JPZenger Aug 2012 #29
NYC Liberal Aug 2012 #14
freedom fighter jh Aug 2012 #25
Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #3
exboyfil Aug 2012 #5
Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #7
exboyfil Aug 2012 #10
Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #17
coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #39
JPZenger Aug 2012 #31
Dustlawyer Aug 2012 #11
Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #18
skip fox Aug 2012 #4
Vietnameravet Aug 2012 #6
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #8
Berlum Aug 2012 #9
LynneSin Aug 2012 #13
gollygee Aug 2012 #15
Mr Dixon Aug 2012 #16
Hubert Flottz Aug 2012 #20
skip fox Aug 2012 #38
KharmaTrain Aug 2012 #19
Evasporque Aug 2012 #21
kuus27 Aug 2012 #22
renate Aug 2012 #27
JHB Aug 2012 #32
riverwalker Aug 2012 #23
Festivito Aug 2012 #24
nc4bo Aug 2012 #26
Festivito Aug 2012 #35
skip fox Aug 2012 #28
riverwalker Aug 2012 #30
cleduc Aug 2012 #33
skip fox Aug 2012 #34
hifiguy Aug 2012 #36
skip fox Aug 2012 #37

Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:22 AM

1. I'm enjoying

These throw downs by Senator Reid. This isn't the first time he has said to the Romney Campaign - PROVE IT. Prove me wrong!

Only thing I'm uncomfortable with his him remaining leader. Sorry - but next Congress it's got to be someone in a solid blue state. Angle got too close for comfort in Nevada. . . Love him or hate him - Schumer. Love him or hate him - Bob Menendez. And Bob is running this year, will win this year, and won't have any fear about losing his job in even 2016.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:43 AM

2. "No taxes in ten years," a Romney ploy???

Romney may have had the information leaked. The result:

1. Louder demands for himn to release his returns.

2. He releases returns which may look bad but not half as bad as the leak.

3. When the facts are seen to be more positive than those projected, Romney has somewhat innoculated himself on this issue and it can be overcome in several news cycles.

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Response to skip fox (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:57 AM

12. A problem I have with this theory.

If Romney even has a small amount of tax returns which aren't terribly damaging, wouldn't he have released them by now? Isn't he doing more damage to his campaign by waiting, even when members of his own party are begging for him to release them?

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Response to EOTE (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:07 AM

29. He's been running for President for 6 years, you would think the last 6 yrs. would be scrubbed clean

If Romney had half a brain, he would have very carefully structured his tax returns for the last 6 years to avoid controversy. He thought he was going to be the Republican nominee in 2008, so I find it hard that he wouldn't have made at least the 2007 and 2008 returns look good.

He also was considered for the VP nominee in 2008 - he knew his tax returns would have been reviewed privately. Some people think that info helped lower his chances to be picked for VP in 2008.

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Response to skip fox (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:08 AM

14. I don't buy this theory.

At this point his image as an out-of-touch Mr Moneybags is almost cemented. Waiting months to release totally clean tax returns would be an incredibly stupid strategy that will only make people think he must have done something to "edit" the returns.

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Response to skip fox (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:47 AM

25. Yup. And the way to keep this from working in Romney's favor . . .

. . . is to scrutinize any damning information before going to town on it and spreading it everywhere.

Things look and sound very different outside of the left-wing echo chamber. There are people -- many, many people -- who will see discredited attacks on Romney as just more left-wing scheming and dishonesty.

So let's make sure any attacks we make are well founded.

This movie has played before. Think of Dan Rather and W's military record.

My guess is that probably there's lots of stuff in Romney's tax returns that will work against him unless the right wing is succeeds in distracting voters from it by screaming about us and our unfair tactics.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 07:55 AM

3. That's how Mitt "supported the troops"

Mitt isn't even a good citizen of the United States of America. Ran off to France to evade the draft. Played the religion card and got out of the war, but he can't wait to be able to send your kids to get their balls blown off, because the neoCons want somebody's oil or want to build a pipeline.

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Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:24 AM

5. I still can't get over protesting

the ones protesting the war in Vietnam and not being one of the first at the recruiter's office willing to sign up. In my mind that picture is devastating. You can be against the war but know you have to serve to maintain your political viability (Gore and Kerry), you can refuse to serve but also be against the war (Clinton), but you can't be for the war but refuse to serve (Romney). How Romney allowed himself to be photographed reflects on his judgement. Even Bush Jr. knew that he had to look like he was serving (and in spite of the potential issues with how he exited the Guard - being an aviator in the Guard is risky - not as risking as being on a boat in a Vietnamese river but still risky).

Some how the Democrats need to control this narrative. They failed in 1984. Obama gets a pass because of his age. That picture should be used by the independent PACs. Also I Lawrence O'Donnell was onto something yesterday when he compared windsurfing to dressage. Time to dig up the old hit pieces on Kerry and dust them off for dressage.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:42 AM

7. I protested the draft in my mind for two years.

But I wouldn't, couldn't and didn't run away from my service to my country.

But Mitt, is for starting a war between Israel and Iran in the already simmering and unstable Middle East, before he even gets into the White House.

Hair Triggered just like Bush and you know he'd bring all the old BushCo war hawks right back to the White House with him. Guys like Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and all his boys, Condie Rice, Yoo, Jeb, Addington, and Bolton. All the old Cons.

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Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:49 AM

10. I thank you for your service

I was too young so I don't know I would react. I do remember watching the images as a child and wanting to be a soldier. I almost went into the Navy (had a Naval ROTC scholarship which I gave up). Some of my best friends from High School served and some were wounded. I have the greatest of respect for them.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:17 AM

17. The Army was big on telling you to, "Get Your Head Out Of Your Ass"

so it would have done Mitt a world of good to have, showed up and "done the right thing."

Mitt already had developed his torturing skills to a high level, in high school and college, so he may have excelled in a typical garden variety BushCo invade and occupy scenario.

Did Mitt learn enough skills to be the new CiC? I'd be more impressed by the facts and figures on how Mitt and his friends are able to afford more wives than the bad guys Mitt claims needed to be bombed in the Mid East.

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Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:49 PM

39. Like Cheney, Mitt simply had 'other priorities'. If you have

 

a problem with that, you must be a dirty fucking hippie

(in case it's needed)

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:09 AM

31. George W. also got himself certified on a type of jet that was about to be scrapped

One of the skills of George W. was that he was certified as a jet fighter pilot - but on an outdated type of plane that was about to be scrapped and would never have been sent into combat.

It is amazing that the National Guard was not sent to Vietnam - unlike most other US wars. That may have happened because so many sons of powerful politicians were in the National Guard.

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Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:53 AM

11. And we could not afford the protective equipment for our troops b/c the 1% like Romney

Do not pay anything in taxes. He says he does not pay anymore than he legally has to, but when your friends in Washington write the tax code to make it legal to avoid taxes, I am sorry, but that should not be America! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:19 AM

18. Welcome to DU.

.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:24 AM

4. This story certainly came at the right time! Right after Europen trip when calls for his returns

have somewhat diminished.

Now they should be louder than ever.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:29 AM

6. Really?

It's a good story but I failed to see it on national news or in this mornings newspaper.. so how is the news supposed to get out?
Bet anything that is this was Obama, well hell it would be front page news and Fox would do a two hour presentation..

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #6)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:44 AM

8. The only thing FOX can do with THIS is bring on a bunch of "experts" to "prove" it's impossible.

 

They call it "reporting" while I call it "distraction".

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 08:47 AM

9. Republican tax dodgers like Willard Romney (R)

...suck at least as much as Republican draft dodgers like Willard Romeny (R).

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:04 AM

13. Just remember that the vast right-wing numnuts out there will celebrate this fact!

And wish they could find a way to pay no taxes. Mind you most of these are working class people who probably hardly make enough to pay much in taxes each year.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:11 AM

15. The spin I'm hearing

Is that if there was a legal way to avoid paying taxes, then he would have been stupid to do otherwise. Also, that anything that is legal must also be ethical.

That won't fly and they know it. There are plenty of unethical things that are legal, and they keep saying stuff like "You can't legislate morality" to explain why some things are unethical but should remain legal anyway.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:15 AM

16. SMH

Actor Wesley Snipes three-year prison sentence for willfully failing to file federal tax returns, is Mitt next? How could he be so stupid to run for POTUS, if this is true?

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Response to Mr Dixon (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:26 AM

20. "How could he be so stupid"

Mitt earned stupid, when he put that (R) in front of his name. And so did all the rest of the (R)s.

Money trumps the stink of shit in Prince Mitt's little world. And the same goes for the "people" who find Mitt so attractive.

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Response to Mr Dixon (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:44 PM

38. This is a big issue. Do we want a president someone with so little foresight

(or so much greed clouding his or her foresight) that he or she would damage themselves by taking loopholes and paying as little as possible &c.???

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:26 AM

19. Perception As Reality...

One big lie Democrats need to shout down is that Willard has put past returns out there. No he hasn't. We've learned he left a key addenum off his 2010 returns that would disclose his offshore accounts and his 2011 are on extension and we won't see those numbers during this election. Yep...there's a lot to hide and a lot being hidden.

When this issue first came up I predicted that Willard hadn't paid taxes for years...and I'll go one step further and say he got some nice refunds (using his deductions and losses when the market tanked in 2007) in '08 and '09. Yep, he got money back!

The box Willard is now in is whatever he releases (if he does) will be suspect. Are these the full reports? Were they doctored? This remains his glass jaw as while there's a large portion of the electorate that hates taxes, a larger number hate tax cheats...

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:29 AM

21. this will force him to release returns...

better to explain them factually rather than allow continued speculation....either way the tax issue is going to hurt Mitt alot....Teabilly Fucksticks might not like taxes but everyone hates tax cheats and deadbeats (legal or not)

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:30 AM

22. Strategy less Democrats



Two things I believe are true. 1) If there were rumors that President Obama had ANY relative not pay
taxes for ten years, let alone himself, Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity etc.
would pound this story over and over and over to make sure it was
in every voters mind.

2) Probably less than twenty percent of the voting public is aware of these
rumors and because democrats are wimpy it will not be put in to every
voters mind.

3) Every democratic politician, liberal media people, etc. should be at a
microphone saying " We already wanted Mr. Romney to release his
past taxes but NOW THAT THERE IS A STORY OUT THERE THAT HE
DID NOT PAY TAXES FOR TEN YEARS RELEASING HIS TAXES MUST
HAPPEN OR WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THE STORY IS TRUE!

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Response to kuus27 (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:03 AM

27. welcome to DU!

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Response to kuus27 (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:33 AM

32. Right, and points to hit:

1) When he says he's disclosed all he's legally required to, the answer is "so what?". This isn't about legal requirements. For over forty years we've had a tradition of presidential candidates making their tax forms public to help judge their character. Romney's own father is the man who established this tradition, released 12 years, and noted that showing only one or two could be a fluke or something arranged for the sake of appearances.

2) When he says people will just pick over it and find fault with anything they can, again the answer is "so what?". Every ad you're run about Obama has Soviet-grade editing to transparently lie about what he was saying. Why should anyone else be concerned about people "looking for anything" in your returns when your team outright invents things?

3) We know where Theresa Heinz-Kerry and Cindy McCain got their wealth: they're heiresses. They weren't the ones running, much less running on a background as a "successful businessman".

4) Just show us what you showed John McCain, plus the ones since then.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:36 AM

23. deadbeat citizen

pays no taxes, just takes "free stuff" from the rest of us. The taxes he didn't pay would have gone to medical care for veterans who fought in the place of his five pampered coward sons.
Corporate welfare queen.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:36 AM

24. Either that or he did pay -- some -- and we'll look too foolish to reveal details.

The story will be about a Dem, Reid, saying Romney paid nothing, instead of the story being about his low rate.

His low rate will look good compared to zero percent.

And, all the finger-pointing blame on the TV will point to Dems.

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Response to Festivito (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:48 AM

26. How does he explain those offshore accounts?

I believe he admitted that the Bermuda and Cayman accounts were set up so foreign companies could avoid paying U.S. taxes.

I know most Americans are still po'd that many corporations not only get subsidies and write-offs, pay very little taxes along with the offshoring of jobs - why would Romney's situation be any different?



Mitt's beat on so many issues that if/when the dust settles on one, there are several more to take it's place.

Right?

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:08 AM

35. "They're legal" that's how he'd explain it.

(It was made to remain legal near beginning of Bush admin.)

Then he can say that we would not want to elect someone dumb, not take advantage of all the tax reducing rules made available to a person.

With so many issues each with so many sides, voters lose track and vote on feelings. But, they will remember clear differences such as he said NOTHING, versus the truth was 5%, 10%, 15%, whatever - but not zero. Clearly, the zero-speakers are clearly wrong. And, that's the feeling that sticks.

Whereas comparing 15% to 30% becomes nebulous. 15.08% versus 29.7% or whatever those figures were, I forget, the memory fogs, the eyes glaze over, ... How do I feel?

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Response to Festivito (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:06 AM

28. Yes. Leak as ploy inoculating Romney on the issue in some measure.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:09 AM

30. Al Capone and rMoney

a cool ad would be comparing headlines of Al Capone's tax evasion trial and headlines of Romney's tax evasion schemes.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:34 AM

33. One odd thing about this:

Reid originally floated this on the Senate floor on July 12.

And he brings up the Bain investor who tipped him off about it yesterday.

What has the Romney camp done about it?

I asked around and nobody yet can recall them flat out denying the claim.

I don't mean that they didn't respond with "he paid what he was legally obligated to pay in taxes". The Romney campaign & Romney did do that.

I mean there has been no flat out denial by the Romney campaign that he's not paid taxes for a 10 year period.

Did I miss that?

You'd think the Romney campaign would rapidly be all over that to discredit Reid .... if Reid's claim was false ...

EDIT: I think ABS asked if he'd ever paid less than 13.9%. Romney said he'd check ... and hasn't got back to them.

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Response to cleduc (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:04 AM

34. Lovely questions. It seems Romney thought

it would just all go away after the Colorado shootings and the European trip.

So Reid, having had a real tip, waits until just the right moment and with the right story . . . He now be hounded so much he'll have to release them or be seen as having done something as damaging as Reid heard or worse!!

But you're point is "spot on": if what Reid heard was untrue, the Romney camp and Fox would have had a field day on the story of the Senate leader spreading untrue rumors simply to damage someone politically, even when the leader knew they were false!!! This would have been a great narrative for Fox and Romney if the rumors were untrue.

The absence of such a narrative highly suggests the rumor is true, the facts possibly even worse.

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Response to skip fox (Original post)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 11:18 AM

36. I suspect that the Swiss tax amnesty issue is at the bottom

of much of this. That, and the fact that he made tens of millions on hedged bets, subject only to minimal capital gains taxes, in the calendar years of 2008 and 2009.

My gut says that this crawling MittShitt has probably paid an average of around 5-10% in taxes for most of the last decade.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 1, 2012, 12:41 PM

37. But there might be more that, while not illegal, will show Romney in a terrible light like

if he was paid $950,000 a year when he claimed not be be in charge of Bain.

Or that he is claiming deductions for love child he is supporting, or . . .

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