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Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:06 PM

Why don't we talk about Mitt's Mormonism? The Brits. do.

&feature=player_detailpage

This sort of thing is no lose. We don't even have to be unfair. I know I'm a broken record on this, but, man. This is just too easy. I know dems. don't like to be bigots, and I KNOW I'm walking a very fine line here. But, come on. Do Americans get it? Really?

Oh, yeah, the piece above is good.

59 replies, 4300 views

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Reply Why don't we talk about Mitt's Mormonism? The Brits. do. (Original post)
ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 OP
stopbush Jul 2012 #1
ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #3
Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #15
Bucky Jul 2012 #17
NightWatcher Jul 2012 #20
Moonwalk Jul 2012 #53
backscatter712 Jul 2012 #30
Marrah_G Jul 2012 #36
treestar Jul 2012 #40
Arugula Latte Jul 2012 #56
treestar Jul 2012 #57
mucifer Jul 2012 #2
niceguy Jul 2012 #4
ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #5
elleng Jul 2012 #28
spanone Jul 2012 #8
dimbear Jul 2012 #9
Bucky Jul 2012 #19
blueamy66 Jul 2012 #37
Marrah_G Jul 2012 #38
jberryhill Jul 2012 #51
railsback Jul 2012 #12
white_wolf Jul 2012 #21
railsback Jul 2012 #59
Arugula Latte Jul 2012 #55
loyalsister Jul 2012 #25
Angry Dragon Jul 2012 #6
Iggo Jul 2012 #7
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #10
Bucky Jul 2012 #22
renate Jul 2012 #11
Nye Bevan Jul 2012 #13
Bucky Jul 2012 #24
jberryhill Jul 2012 #27
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #14
Bucky Jul 2012 #16
aikoaiko Jul 2012 #18
KamaAina Jul 2012 #23
Hamlette Jul 2012 #32
Avalux Jul 2012 #41
treestar Jul 2012 #42
kentuck Jul 2012 #44
treestar Jul 2012 #45
kentuck Jul 2012 #47
treestar Jul 2012 #48
kentuck Jul 2012 #49
K8-EEE Jul 2012 #26
longship Jul 2012 #29
sadbear Jul 2012 #31
kentuck Jul 2012 #33
mnhtnbb Jul 2012 #34
kentuck Jul 2012 #39
craigmatic Jul 2012 #35
treestar Jul 2012 #43
oldhippydude Jul 2012 #54
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2012 #46
trof Jul 2012 #50
Politicalboi Jul 2012 #52
marlakay Jul 2012 #58

Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:14 PM

1. Unless we as Americans are prepared to treat all religious beliefs with the kind of derision

and scorn heaped on Mormonism (or Scientology, for that matter), then we best shut up.

Seriously - what's stupider? Magic underwear, or believing a guy came back from the dead? Believing that when you die you get your own planet to live on, or that you go to heaven to live with Jeebus?

It's all idiotic, childish bullshit.

Fair is fair. All fairy tales have the same connection to reality, which is to say, "none."

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:18 PM

3. Yes, of course.

JFK's Catholicism was used against him. But let's see Mittens use the argument you just used. None of these people are going to use an absurdist argument or the argument that it's all bullshit anyway. If Obama's time in a black social-gospel church was an issue, well, then . . .

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:11 PM

15. I'm prepared. nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:19 PM

17. What a great way to drive away votes from Democrats!

There's nothing wrong with pointing out the silliness inherent in deistic religious belief systems rooted in Stone Age mythologies. It's just a remarkably dumb idea to do so in the name of the Democratic Party, which counts on the support of millions of Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist voting blocks. Mixing religion and partisan politics has always been a bad idea. It gets people killed and it shuts off the dialog necessary for the marketplace of ideas. How many times do we have to burn our hands on the stove before learning there's a reason Goddess gave us oven mitts?

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:22 PM

20. I'm ready to mock and judge anyone who believes in fairy tales

At least with the other religions (Catholicism, Methodism, Lutheran......) they have the decency to follow something that wasnt made up (or discovered or founded) so recently that there are people who can remember the founders and call them on their bullshit. I am related (by marriage) to one of the big proponents of the newish movement of Southern Pentacostalism and the rest of the family knew for years and now generations that same said great great uncle was completely full of shit. Mormonism, for one, was founded by a convicted fraudster. Lets own up to that fact and not gloss over it or call it bashing.

Let's have some Atheists run for office who will not be beholden to (or scared of) great beings in the sky. You wouldnt go to a heart surgeon who still believed in Santa Claus?

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:33 PM

53. I don't think that's quite an apt comparison. I mean, a surgeon who believed in...

Santa Claus could still be a good surgeon--you'd just know you'd get great Christmas cards from him each year More apt would be, "Would you trust a faith healer to cure you appendectomy over a surgeon?" Likewise with a president. We really don't want a president who, as Scott Walker did, meets people's complaints about fire and drought by praying for rain rather than trying to engineer ways to pipe in water.




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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:47 PM

30. I'm game!

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:31 PM

36. I have no problem with it

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:38 PM

40. But yet you've shown the difference

It's one thing to go to heaven to be with the god-figure. A lot of religions feature that. But your own planet? That's a new one.

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Response to treestar (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:52 PM

56. Well, sure. It makes perfect SENSE that heaven is on fluffy clouds!

But on another planet?! Wow, that's just effing crazy!

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #56)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 11:41 PM

57. It's not just heaven being on a planet!

It's being god of your own planet! That's a new one.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:14 PM

2. Mike Papantonio said on the radio there will be liberal superpacs

that he is involved with that are going to air commercials that President Obama would not approve of.
This could be one of the issues he was talking about.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:24 PM

4. Because

 

It shouldn't matter....

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Response to niceguy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 09:28 PM

5. Uhhhh, yeah, though, it kind of does.

Bush-the-dumber's Israel policy is exactly predicated upon his evangelical faith. And Sarah Palin, well, yeah. No. And those videos surfaced. I don't want a smear job or anything untoward. I just want people to understand Mittens' background. He says his faith forms who he is, so we should look (as we should with any candidate who applies for the job). Santorum is very open about his faith and how it works in his life. This may always be his downfall. I'm just looking for something similar.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:39 PM

28. Makes sense,

but applying it in a way that doesn't appear bigotted is difficult.

SO MANY THINGS about rmoney can't be discussed! His religion, his taxes, his jobs (even when its his job at Bain he relies on to argue he understands the economy, and as governor>health care reform.)

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Response to niceguy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 10:29 PM

8. but it does....12% - Still Think Obama is Muslim

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Response to niceguy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 11:17 PM

9. The Mormons lost their immunity when they sponsored prop Hate.

If you are basically a political organization, you're going to get backlash.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:21 PM

19. Yes, every single Mormon should be singled out for the actions of a few.

What d'ya think, maybe we should put 'em in camps or something?

Seriously, I loathe it when Democrats mimic fascist talking points. In your heart, you know better than this.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:35 PM

37. It shouldn't be hard to find the 10 African Americans that are Mormons.

 

I know that's not the real number, but we all know that they just let Black men become priests about 20 years ago.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:36 PM

38. It wasn't the actions of a few

It was the actions of many, giving money to promote the removal of rights of people their religion tells them to hate. When I see the majority of mormons pooling their money together to fight for equality, then I will change my mind.

That goes for every religion out there using their power and money to harm others.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:24 PM

51. The anti-prop 8 campaign and money was guided right out of the church


You really need to watch "The Mormon Proposition". Internal memos among LDS officials were quite clear about their concern with their actions becoming public in relation to their coordination of the campaign.

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Response to niceguy (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 11:26 PM

12. This guy

 

Last edited Mon Jul 30, 2012, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)

believes God exists in human form and lives on a distant planet called Kolob. Scientology also has the space alien thing going, and nobody seems to have a problem lambasting that 'church'. And it weren't for social pressures, the Mormons would still believe (and probably still do under their breath) that blacks were once white people who got burned dark for being evil.

Mormonism isn't your average 'praise God' religion. There's some seriously weird stuff going on here.

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Response to railsback (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:26 PM

21. No weirder than worshiping a 2000 year old dead guy and drinking his "blood." n/t

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 31, 2012, 07:23 PM

59. Mormons worship the 2000 year old guy

 

Drink his 'blood' and whatnot, but they also got extra weird additions, such as the Bible Part 3.

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Response to railsback (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:50 PM

55. A sky god rapes a virgin and she gives birth to his son who subsequently rises from the dead

and he's gonna come back soon. Meanwhile people eat his meat and drink his blood -- that doesn't strike you as seriously weird?

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Response to niceguy (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:29 PM

25. Exactly

I think a lot of the things I dislike in Romney have to do with his experience as a Mormon.
But, I refuse to be discriminatory about the fact of his participation and defend our side when Obama is "accused" of being a Muslim. My answer for that is "so what if he is?"

Consistency does matter.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 10:21 PM

6. Keep religion in your homes and churches

If you bring your religion out into politics, say that it is a huge force in your life, try to make me live by your beliefs then I have a right to question your religion.

Keep it to yourself and everything will be fine

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 10:23 PM

7. We don't?

Huh.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 11:22 PM

10. I get your point, but this country was founded in part

due to a desire to break free from the Church of England. That is why there is no religious requirement/clause for POTUS and the whole freedom of religion (separation of church and state) thing in the founding documents.

That said, when someone's faith determines their priorities in governance (see: Palin, Sarah) it is a critical issue, but do we really want to open that general can of worms?

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:28 PM

22. !!

Amen. We can have discussions about religion outside of politics. But when you mix the two, you shut down conversations and you destroy the spirit of tolerance needed for a liberal democracy. The Founders knew their history: the Reformation wars, the Thirty Years War, the Crusades and the plundering of Constantinople, the waves of anti-Catholic and then anti-Protestant persecutions in Britain, the English Civil War...

Religion historically leads to factionalism. Democracy, at its best, depends on tolerance. They're not "oil and water" - they're potassium and water.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 11:25 PM

11. I think his faith is irrelevant IF and ONLY IF it's irrelevant to the way he would govern

If he would let his faith guide his decisions, it's extremely relevant.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2012, 11:30 PM

13. Barack Obama believes that some dude was executed and rose from the dead after three days.

And that the same guy turned water into wine, and fed 5000 people with a couple of loaves and fishes.

I mean, he must be mentally unbalanced to believe this kind of crap, no?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:29 PM

24. And that dude's name was Bill Clinton.

The Comeback Kid!! Woo-hoo!

Oh, I'm sorry. Am I off topic?

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Response to Bucky (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:34 PM

27. I guess Obama would have considered Mormonism...

...if they would have allowed him to fully participate.

But, alas, the LDS did not allow black people to gain full endowment until 1978. This was a policy which Mitt Romney, of course, supported as bishop and during his missionary work.

While the "mark of Cain" was indeed an edict from God, it was nonetheless one which Mr. Romney taught and supported.

That is relevant, sorry.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:09 PM

14. Heres a start

Henry Blodget isn't exactly MSM, but his site is heavily traffic'd

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-mormonism-was-founded-2012-7

Our next President may be a Mormon, so it seems a good time to learn some things about that particular religion.
For example:

- Do Mormons have any weird beliefs or practices that might make a President do strange things?
- Is there a Mormon "pope" or other boss that a President might feel some greater allegiance to?
- Can Mormons truly separate "church" and "state"--or do they think that their "God's law" is higher than American law?

And so on...

And how did Mormonism come to be, anyway? Wasn't it founded only a relatively little while ago by some dude in upstate New York? (Upstate New York?!)

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:13 PM

16. Because it's not an issue that touches on Mitt's utter lack of qualification for the job.

Because most liberal Americans don't want their arguments to be associated with the right wing bigots who tried (and failed) to make it big deal during the Republican nomination race. Because all bigots suck. Because "first they came for the Jews." Because the "land of liberty" should mean just that.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:21 PM

18. Because it smacks of the same lame attacks on JRK taking orders from the Pope.


I'm an atheist and I don't really feel compelled to denigrate one person's religion while giving a pass to the religion of my candidate.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:28 PM

23. It's not his Mormonism that concerns me

it's the time he spent as stake (roughly equivalent to a Catholic diocese) president in Boston. That makes him part of the LDS Church's leadership. That's a whole different kettle of fish than, say, JFK's (lay) Catholicism.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:53 PM

32. Stake president is a low level lay position in the church

As is Bishop. All mormon men earn some title like that if they go to church often. It's a complete no big deal. He prolly got to be stake president because of either his money or political ambitions. Mormons love people with money, in fact, they tell their missionaries to convert only rich people on their missions overseas. They say its because the rich and powerful will then do the converting after the missionaries leave but I think its because they like the 10%.

And stake presidents have NO say in leadership. Way too far down the line. First there is president, he has 2 close aids, (called "the presidency" then under that is the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and under that there are several groups called "quorum of 70". Only some of the members of the first and second quorum (I think there about 12 quorums of the 70) have any authority over church doctrine. And of course the 12 apostles and and the top three guys (the presidency).

Stake presidents don't have anything to do, unless they are are also in the quorums, with decisions in the church or leadership except as to the wards they oversee.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:43 PM

41. I agree. Mitt is in at the top of the LDS chain....

his money and their money, all wrapped up together. I know it sounds paranoid, but is it a plot for Mormons to take over the US? We have no clue how much wealth Romney has amassed, how the church is tied to it, and how much of the USA they own.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:44 PM

42. I agree and would go further to say I don't like his telling that girl to give up her child

Even though any bishop of any religion might have done that. But I wonder if more mainstream religions would do that nowadays.

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Response to treestar (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:50 PM

44. Did you notice who the kid looks like now?

That he is 27 and living in Salt Lake City??

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Response to kentuck (Reply #44)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:53 PM

45. I wondered if he was a Mormon

since he's living is SLC, but that seems contra-indicated by his mother's story. Are you thinking he resembles the Mittwit?

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Response to treestar (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:57 PM

47. Don't you see the resemblance?

She said she called Mitt when the baby was sick and he sent two other people to see her and that was more or less her break with the Mormon Church.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 06:03 PM

48. I wondered too that she seemed so upset that he sent two other people and did not come himself

Hey it's no worse than the Obama/Davis crap. The right could use the lesson.

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Response to treestar (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 06:17 PM

49. Why wouldn't she ask for the father of the child to be there?

Maybe she did?

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:33 PM

26. IT'S A VALID CONCERN that Mitt thinks we're in the "LATTER DAYS" AND ACTS RECKLESSLY

because he is excited about the world going to hell in a handbasket so Jesus can come and rule the universe for 1000 years with the LDS in Missouri!!

I'm sorry but why is Rev Wright/ "everyone thinks Obama is a MUZZLIM" stuff fine for US media but Mitt's REAL BELIEFS and the fact that he won't say he believes in the separation of Church and State NOT ALLOWED TO BE BROUGHT UP.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:30 PM

29. Because the USA has Article VI and First Amendment and the UK doesn't.

Notice that it is our First Amendment. More importantly, there is Article VI, which I recommend you read. Naw! I won't presume you will do that, so here's the applicable clause:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

{emphasis mine}


I am a lifelong atheist. I despise religion. But, damn it! Campaigning against a candidate's religion is just plain wrong!

If Mitt opens the door to this by, for instance, saying that his policies are informed by his faith, so be it. But he hasn't, nor will he.

Plus, are we going to then oppose Harry "Golden Gloves" Reid?

Let's end this once and for all. A person's religious belief is a non sequitur.

It's his position on policy which make Romney unsuitable for the Oval Office, not his religious belief. That's the American way.

Enough of this bullshit. If you disagree, read the fucking Article VI quote above again.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:50 PM

31. Hey man, that's why we left England in the first place

They were all bad-mouthing and persecuting our whackadoodle cults, man.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:58 PM

33. Did anyone notice this ???

At about the 22 minute mark of the video, a lady is interviewed who had a child out of wedlock and Mitt Romney wanted her to give up her child to the church. She refused and felt as if she had been excommunicated from the church. Mitt was a high official in the church at the time.

She says she is happy she kept her baby and they showed a picture of him and said he was 27 years old and living in Salt Lake City.

He looked just like Mitt Romney!!!! No kidding.

&feature=player_embedded#!

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:26 PM

34. Did you catch the slip--from the Elder--about "Osama"...meaning Obama?!?

It's at 30:14 and he corrects himself, "I mean President Obama".

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #34)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:36 PM

39. Yep.

I caught that.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:30 PM

35. Everyone knows he's a moron what's the point of talking about it?

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:47 PM

43. Interesting show

at points, it seems to be more about Mormons and the fundamentalists polygamous Mormons that about Mittster. The Mittwit should not be tainted with the polygamy end of it, though it's about as fair as calling Obama a Muslim. Still the ignorant hear the middle name "Hussein" and perhaps think it's reasonable.

I'd love to see one of those first of plural wives try for a divorce. That would create an interesting legal mess. I was at first thinking it's not so believable that Husband rotates among his wives - he probably stays with the newest one more. But then, you start to realize, it would be bad to piss off legal wife #1.

We always see the President with children and say he's a natural. There were a few scenes there were Mitt had a kid or two and the context seems to show they are his own grandchildren, yet they don't look that thrilled. It would be funny to see Obama pick up one of Mitt's own grandchildren. They'd probably be happy.

A lot of religions demand 10% but why are the Mormons so good at collecting/enforcing it?

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Response to treestar (Reply #43)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:41 PM

54. for those interested

in the mid 60's i read book by Irving wallace called the 27th wife... i am sure it is long since out of print... rather lengthy but a good read.. unfortunately that was during my teen years and i remember little beyond the title..

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 05:56 PM

46. A really good video, thank you!

What's required for office is different from what will influence votes. Since it matters to many voters, I think they should be aware of the fact that Romney's religion is not biblical. That could be done well, even though it might take extra diplomacy.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:12 PM

50. K&R

This need wide distribution.

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:30 PM

52. We need the PAC's to do this

No Dem affiliation. Just someone to spook the horse so to speak. Fear of being baptized after death with a Mormon President. How many wives does Mitt Rmoney have? If Rmoney's dad was born in Mexico, does that make Mittens a citizen of Mexico?

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Response to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 11:44 PM

58. Maybe because Senator Reid head of senate….

is a mormon!

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