Were Mormons persecuted by our government?

[kentuck]

Is that why they have a cob up their ass about paying their fair share of taxes?

Judging from the actions of Mitt Romney, one might think so? He has done everything humanly possible, and perhaps illegally, to get out of paying taxes on his enormous wealth. That wouldn't be so bad, I guess, if the scamming asshole wasn't running for President?

Does he get tax breaks for the tithes to his Church also? And who ends up with those "tithes"? Is Mitt Romney a big shot in the Mormon Church?

Anybody that will cheat on his taxes will cheat on his country, in my humble opinion.

[elleng]

1. Yes, they were persecuted.

Don't know about others than rmoney, re: attitudes about paying taxes, but he's an expert in finding and benefitting from loopholes/handouts and subsidies from govt., which is one reason he's so 'successful,' imo. And also why he doesn't want to disclose, let everyone else know his m.o.

[hack89]

2. In 1857 the US government waged war against the the Mormons.

while it was relatively bloodless and was settled through talk, there was a long history of conflict and persecution behind it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War


Has nothing to do with paying taxes but it is interesting history.

[Brother Buzz]

10. The state of Missouri kicked the mormons out by executive order in 1838. Formally rescinded in 1976

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44

Boggs' Missouri Executive Order Number 44, read as follows:


Headquarters of the Militia, City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.

Gen. John B. Clark:

Sir: Since the order of this morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your division, I have received by Amos Reese, Esq., of Ray county, and Wiley C. Williams, Esq., one of my aids [sic], information of the most appalling character, which entirely changes the face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this state. Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operation with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace--their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary. I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen. Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north. They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred of his brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.

I am very respectfully, yr obt st [your obedient servant],

L. W. Boggs, Commander-in-Chief.

[Rambis]

3. They got draft deferments during Vietnam

MItt longed to go to Vietnam but took them anyway-

[arcane1]

4. As I understand it, his tithes count as charitable donations

and thus tax-deductible. If you want to know who ends up with the money, look no further than your nearest mormon temple.

[randr]

5. Actually it was Americans who were persecuted and attacked by Mormons

The Mormon history is rife with illegal actions against the US. Troops had to sent to Utah at one time to protect non-Mormon settlers.
Mormons would disguise themselves as Native Americans, attack wagon trains, and kill women and children.
Now who else is it that has used disguises recently?

[Igel]

11. Interesting.

"Mormon" and "American" are under focus and are in opposition.

That pretty much makes them complementary groups.


Try this one: "No, it wasn't Democrats who were persecuted. Actually, it was Americans who were persecuted and attacked by Democrats." Now, either the Democrats were busily persecuting and attacking themselves or they're distinct, non-overlapping groups.

Interesting, exclusion taken to seeing Mormons as so much the "other" than they're not even viewed as Americans.

[Tom Ripley]

19. +1,000,000

[siligut]

6. The Mormons didn't want to abide by the rules and they were destructive

This is from memory, but early on the Mormons didn't like what a local newspaper wrote, so they went at night and destroyed the presses. They also practiced polygamy and were forced out of some cities, which resulted in their trek to Utah. Joe Smith was shot too, but I think it was Masons who did it, but maybe that is where the grudge comes from, Mormons want to avenge Joe's death.

Tithing is on pretax income. I know the little polyg communities, now excommunicated LDS because LDS wanted to go more mainstream, call getting federal money, "bleeding the beast". I also remember that the anti-tax Montana Freemen were an offshoot of Mormonism, so the church may be where they got their ideas from.

Romney is what is considered Mormon royalty, rich, white, from a long generation of Mormons. Romney lies all the time and he does it with a sincere face, I have no doubt he will hollow out our country, to the advantage of a few. I have spoken with business men and they said that no one wants to do business with Mormons, they cheat in very sneaky ways.

[MrsMatt]

15. not to mention the philosphy

of "Lying for the Lord"

http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm

[siligut]

18. It might explain how Romney can lie repeatedly with such a sincere face

Maybe that is how he was raised, in a wealthy family of grifters. Thank you for the link to the article, it is very informative and really quite disturbing.

[1-Old-Man]

7. Yes they were, and if Romney has his way they will all receive 'reparations"

You know how you can tell if you're talking to a real political idiot? If you hear them say that Obama wants to give all the black people in the country reparations for slavery. Now this would not bother me a bit seeings as how exactly one half of my (extended) family is black, but its not very likely to happen. Well, Romney is about as likely to give reparations to Mormons as Obama is to give them to the descendants of slaves.

[kentuck]

9. Romney has already got his "reparations".

Wouldn't you agree?

[obamanut2012]

8. Mountain Meadows Massacre

That is all I'm saying about that.

[Igel]

12. Yeah, he gets a tax break.

Well, a tax deduction. It's considered the same as giving money to Harvard or Greenpeace. A social good, with individuals being allowed to dedicate money to collective and social enterprised.

Now, as to what happens with his tithes and contributions, that's an empirical question (to use Chomsky's words). Why don't you find out?

I worked for a church. As a non-profit, our books had to be for public inspection.

Fair game: Revenue sources (gross figures), budget categories. No personal information permitted. I'd tell people the gross salary figures for the month. Or the year. If they wanted to see details, usually fine if it involved a church expense. Printing for the month? Sure. What businesses were used? Okay. At some point that's unnecessary. But the top level budget, income, expense and cash flow stuff, by month and by year? Certainly public.

Names and confidential information off limits: Who contributed what, who got aid, salary/payroll info. "How much does Richard make?" "Get stuffed."

Don't know about LDS stuff. Does each ward or stake keep its books separate? Does each stake file with the IRS separately? Does the HQ in SLC do all that? Do you contribute locally or to the central office, or do they allow either and some accounting system keeps track of it all?

Call your local ward or stake and ask if their records are open and where they're kept. Most Mormons I've met or talked to have been nice people. You have to know where they're coming from some times, but after that there's no problem. Like with most people, treat them nicely and with respect and you get the same in return.

[kentuck]

13. I'm sure most of them are very nice people...

But I wonder if some of the higher-ups in the Church have some animosity toward the government and believe that it is perfectly OK not to pay any taxes, if possible. That is just an impression I get with Mitt Romney...

[Wounded Bear]

17. Yeah, but is that any different from any other wealthy person?

The 1% (and higher) in general seem loathe to pay taxes and contribute to society.

[Posteritatis]

21. To be fair, the higher ups in a lot of religious groups have animosity towards the government lately

Mormons for sure, but the Catholics, southern Baptists, and so on all have their problems both real and perceived.

Most of them have been "blessed" with some lousy treatment by previous governments, and old institutions are pretty good at holding grudges...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. They were bullied and harassed until they went to Utah

Where they did some bad things in return. Utah was denied statehood until the Mormons renounced polygamy.

Tithes are another name to donations to his church which is a charity in the eyes of the IRS. No different that when any other church passes the plate.

[Sheepshank]

16. When one is paying 10% on GROSS income

paying anything in actual taxes becaome a secondary burden they don't feel is so necessaary. With an addition 15% in taxes the Romeny are actually out 25% *gasp* of their income. For all the money that goes to "entitlement programs", I imagine the Romney's feel they already paid into such a system via their church donation.

Of course there is this great cog diss that much of that money goes to temple building and maint, buying mega malls and keeping much of that donation for their own. Taxes are universally distributed regardless of sex, race or religion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yes, this is well known history

as to Mr. Romney, it is not because he is a Mormom, that has nothing to do with it... it is his class. The VERY RICH, hate to pay taxes independent of country. And our INABILITY to collect them is a problem.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Mitt's family left the US rather than abide by the laws here

For polygamy they went to Mexico as many Mormons did. Those are his family roots.

[Posteritatis]

23. Carrying sins-of-the-fathers a half dozen generations back gets just a bit silly. (nt)

[justiceischeap]

24. One thing to keep in mind about the Mormon "religion"

its founder, Joseph Smith, was a convicted fraud. He was arrested and during the trial admitted to the fraud of "glass-looking" or "peep-stoning." It was shortly after having admitted to this fraud that he found the "golden plates" and transcribed them using "peep-stoning," something he already admitted in a court of law about a year prior was fraudulent behavior--going as far as promising to NEVER do it again so he wouldn't have to go to jail.

The reason Joseph Smith and his mormon's were "persecuted" was because they were criminals, IMO. Everywhere they went, they broke laws. Heck, Smith started an illegal bank in Ohio, defrauding everyone who used it by stealing their money and leaving the state of Ohio in the middle of the night (this was mostly because he was a slave-owner and you couldn't own slaves above the Mason-Dixon line--which is why he and his followers were driven from New York). He lost a lot of followers after the Kirtland Safety Society was closed because they thought he intentionally set out to steal their money to fund his religion.

When he got to Missouri, the reason they were kicked out of that state was because they started a war with the non-mormon's (Missouri War). In 1838 Smith was arrested for treason against the USA in Illinois where he declared himself King of the USA.

Oh, and make sure, while you're investigating the persecution of the mormon's, to research the following: The Mormon Oath of Vengeance against America, a pledge that Brigham Young required from his followers.

[Tom Ripley]

25. "No Man Knows My History" (and Bishop Romney is cut from the same fraudulent cloth)