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Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:26 AM

 

Colorado Massacre to Justify Upcoming Stop-and-Frisk Practice in San Francisco (Plus Other Cities)

Last edited Tue Jul 24, 2012, 03:37 AM - Edit history (1)

The following is real. It is not from the Onion.

For those who don't mind the airport feel-ups (officially called "pat downs"), and for those who don't mind the police stop-and-feel-ups of non-criminals in New York and Philadelphia (officially called "stop-and-frisks"), they have an opportunity for future such experiences when they visit San Francisco.

If you live in another part of the country and can't make it to San Francisco, that's not a problem. You may be able to experience such police feel-ups closer to where you live.

After a recent session at the U.S. Conference of Mayors in Philadelphia, the Mayor of San Francisco affirmed his decision to implement a stop-and-frisk practice for his city. No reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing nor warrant will be required. Apparently, if people have nothing to hide (i.e., no criminal activities to hide), they should not object to any such police activities.

The stop-and-grope practice will not be limited to people in their mid-20's with orange-colored hair or suspected gang members. But the mayor referred to the first ones that will be stopped-and-groped under his policy as "kids" and he said that they are not listening. Of course, if he wants to avoid an age-discrimination lawsuit or two, he might do what the TSA officials do at the airports. He can have his police occasionally stop-and-grope grandmothers in walkers and wheelchairs. Also, to show an absence of discrimination, he can have his police stop-and-grope others as well.

Mayor Ed Lee remains resolute in implementing some form of a stop-and-frisk program - even if it's not called that - in the wake of Friday's horrific movie theater mass shooting in Aurora, Colo., and a trip to Philadelphia, which has its own controversial stop-and-frisk program.

"I am as, if not more, committed, and especially in light of the massacre that occurred in Aurora, but also the review of what's happening in New York and Philadelphia and Chicago and the crime that's committed," Lee said Monday on the sidelines of an announcement about federal transportation funding.
...
"We've got to get to them," Lee said. "That's why I've been contemplating some kind of authority to put some fear into these kids that they can't be carrying these guns thinking they can resolve all their problems with them."
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Ed-Lee-stands-firm-on-stop-and-frisk-plan-3729307.php

San Francisco, of course, is a relatively small city with politicians who are generally considered to be liberals that respect the rule of law under the Constitution. Mayor Lee, like the mayors of New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, is showing that he is ready to give up the Fourth Amendment rights of a few people. He's ready to lead the way for mayors of other smaller cities.

To quote or somewhat paraphrase Martin Niemöller's statement, First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out ...

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Colorado Massacre to Justify Upcoming Stop-and-Frisk Practice in San Francisco (Plus Other Cities) (Original post)
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 OP
Downwinder Jul 2012 #1
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #2
Serve The Servants Jul 2012 #3
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #16
UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #4
spike91nz Jul 2012 #5
Skittles Jul 2012 #6
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #14
justanidea Jul 2012 #7
2pooped2pop Jul 2012 #9
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #13
dreamnightwind Jul 2012 #8
dixiegrrrrl Jul 2012 #10
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #11
snooper2 Jul 2012 #12
WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #15
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #17
fishwax Jul 2012 #18
DeschutesRiver Jul 2012 #19
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #20
LiberalFighter Jul 2012 #21

Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 03:07 AM

1. Forget the fact that Holmes arrived by car.

How many drive by shootings are done by pedestrians?

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 03:28 AM

2. According to the New York Civil Liberties Union, the stop-and-frisk practice of the NY police is not

 

limited to persons capable of being drive-by shooters or suspected of being drive-by shooters. The NYCLU is pursuing a lawsuit, for example, of behalf of two particular individuals:

Plaintiff Terrance Battle, a 38-year-old radio executive, stand-up comic, and father of two children, frequently takes livery cars. Late at night on Oct. 30, 2010, Battle was taking a livery car to his home in Bedford-Stuyvesant following a performance in Manhattan when three police officers pulled over the car on Battle’s street. After talking to the driver and being told everything was fine, the officers ordered Battle out of the car. Though frightened, Battle complied with the order. At the officers’ request, he provided them his ID. The officers frisked him and searched his pockets and bag. When he asked why he was being searched, one of the officers pointed to a TRIP decal on the car and explained that the search was standard practice under TRIP.

Plaintiff Munir Pujara, a 37-year-old lawyer and Harlem resident of South Asian descent, routinely takes livery cars between his Bronx law office and his home. At about 11:30 p.m. on Sept. 3, 2010, Pujara hailed a livery car to return home from work. Shortly into the journey, police pulled over the car. An officer asked the driver about his safety, and the driver said everything was fine. An officer then ordered Pujara to get out the car. When Pujara questioned their right to do this, they threatened him with arrest.

Pujara then got out of the car and was told to turn around and place his hands on the roof and to spread his legs to be searched. He told the officers they had no right to search him, but they insisted they did, pointing to the TRIP decal on the car.
http://www.nyclu.org/case/battle-v-city-of-new-york-challenging-nypd-practice-of-searching-innocent-livery-cab-passengers

The mayor of San Francisco, like other mayors, has not indicated that his police will only target those with the potential to be drive-by shooters as drivers or passengers in private vehicles.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 03:33 AM

3. I'm confident

that the SF police will apply this constitutionally vague policy in the utmost respectful and professional manner, utilizing great restraint, free from any chance of abuse even in the most sensitive or heated situation...






Fuck Ed Lee for even thinking about implementing this

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Response to Serve The Servants (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 01:03 PM

16. What good is police authority if you can't abuse it?

 

The San Francisco cops will be worse than bored TSA workers. They pack heat, and Tasers. And they swarm on anyone that they want to intimidate.

Like football players, they deliver violence on a regular basis. But worse than football players, there are no officials to stop them when they deliver illegal hits. Or use their Tasers.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 04:39 AM

4. This country is just fucked.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 05:15 AM

5. if guns are legal

If the guns are legal, what are they frisking for? If you find a gun and they have a right to carry, or are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, what is the point, as they could del be on their way to shooting someone and the guns would have to be returned until they acted in an unlawful manner? So what exactly is the frisking supposed to reveal?

It is impossible to manage a culture, for any extensive period, from the outside-in by authoritarian methods or by coercive methods for compliance. Producing meaningful communities and a reason for hope in a shared future is a more reliable, and arguably more cost effective, method to ensure societal health. If the outside-in perspective worked, there should be no crime in prisons and the Soviet Union should never have failed. A police state is evidence of the failure of a political ideology, such that it is reduced to the crudest of arguments for personal restraint; the threat of thuggish violence unless one complies with authority.

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Response to spike91nz (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 12:57 PM

14. The SF mayor says that he wants to put "fear" into those who are stopped and those who witness it.

 

When explaining his goal, he used the word "fear" without any inhibition:

Lee said. "That's why I've been contemplating some kind of authority to put some fear into ...


According to the New York Civil Liberties Union with respect to NY stop-and-gropes,
The Department’s own reports on its stop-and-frisk activity confirm what many people in communities of color across the city have long known: The police are stopping hundreds of thousands of law abiding New Yorkers every year, and the vast majority are black and Latino.

An analysis by the NYCLU revealed that innocent New Yorkers have been subjected to police stops and street interrogations more than 4 million times since 2002, and that black and Latino communities continue to be the overwhelming target of these tactics.
http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 05:39 AM

7. So what do they do?

 

If they stop and frisk someone, find a gun, and it turns out they have a carry license?

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Response to justanidea (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 07:42 AM

9. they bust him for the devil Marijuana

which apparently is the real reason for the search. IMO

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Response to justanidea (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 12:51 PM

13. Good question. They will probably do nothing with respect to such a gun, but they will know that

 

they are acting to intimidate a particular individual and intimidate a portion of the population.

There will be instances in which they will conduct their stop-and-grope activities in front of others to show that the person being groped and the witnesses are powerless to stop them. The witnesses will be shown that they are powerless to even appeal to their reason or sense of humanity.

When the San Francisco cops officially start this practice, regardless of the legality or illegality, they will act on Mayor Lee's desire to put fear into a portion of the population.

Even he used the word "fear" when explaining his goal:
Lee said. "That's why I've been contemplating some kind of authority to put some fear into ...

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 05:54 AM

8. Damn, please not in S.F.!

Politically, I can't imagine San Franciscans putting up with it. The politicians probably won't let that stop them, though, they serve other interests, not ours.

S.F. does have a frighteningly desperate and violent under-class. Many of the streets are permanently occupied by people who have no hope whatsoever, no legitimate means of income, no support network, and they do what they have to to survive. It's a huge problem, and needs to be dealt with.

It's sad to see Mayor Lee buying into the police state. Sounds similar to Quan in Oakland. The problem is poverty and hopelessness. Most of these people are just forgotten about by society, and wouldn't be criminals if they had another way to survive.

There are a number of better ways to deal with this problem. Taxing the hell out of the rich and getting that money back to local governments where social services could be funded would be one way.

All of these people are dealing with a lack of opportunity in their lives. Many of them are also dealing with substance abuse problems and various degrees of social challenges or mental illness. It wasn't like this on SF streets pre-Reagan, when so many social services were cut.

We need massive public works projects that improve our urban environments, with the jobs going to the homeless, even if it requires training them and giving them social support in order to hold down the jobs. Some of the money could come from reduced law enforcement and incarceration costs. The rest could easily be covered by tax policy.

It's the kind of change I used to expect Democrats to support. Our Dinocrat Senator Feinstein likes Mayor Lee, and it wouldn't surprise me if she also approves of stop and frisk. She's going out of her way to make sure Manning and Assange are locked up forever or worse. Part of the problem, she is, and it looks like her pal Ed Lee is also part of the problem.

Yeah, I know, good luck with getting any constructive approaches to the poverty problem. We shouldn't shut up about it though, in fact it's all the more reason to speak out for real change any way we can. Our politicians won't do it for us, they'll do crap like stop and frisk, treating the symptoms of the problems, and criminalizing the victims of an increasingly top-heavy society.

Sorry for the rant, thanks for the OP, I was not aware of this until I saw it.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 08:16 AM

10. So glad I moved out of there.

And not at all surprised.
The nationwide creeping fascism will seize on any excuse to exert/tighten control over citizens.
Other cities will be doing this ASAP.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 12:27 PM

11. When a mayor pushes a policy like this, it is reasonable to wonder whether quotas will be

 

given to individual cops? Some police departments have quotas for traffic citations, and either give direct orders for such quotas or use peer pressure. Will the San Francisco police keep statistics and measure the performance of individual officers? Will the City do so along with measuring the performance of sergeants, lieutenants, etc?

And will mayoral demands for even more stop-and-gropes increase over time?

According to the New York Civil Liberties Union
An analysis by the NYCLU revealed that innocent New Yorkers have been subjected to police stops and street interrogations more than 4 million times since 2002
http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices

With respect to the use of this tactic and your mentioning of creeping fascism,
In 2002, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 97,296 times.
...
In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 12:30 PM

12. Any DU'ers who defend these policies can reply right here-

That way we can keep you all together in one spot

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 01:01 PM

15. San Francisco overreaching?

Pshaw.

(pssst...fascists can come from the Left, too...the authoritarian mindset is the authoritarian mindset, whether you live in Orange County or the Haight...)

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 01:06 PM

17. Ironicly, Mayor Lee probably considers himself to be a liberal.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 01:20 PM

18. ugh n/t

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:24 PM

19. This is absurd, unnecessary, indefensible

and disturbing behavior. And I also had no idea that it has been happening in NYC as well.

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Response to DeschutesRiver (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 02:35 PM

20. Unfortunately, there is an upward trend for the abuse.

 

10 years ago in 2002, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 97,296 times without having a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.

In the first three months of this year alone, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 203,500 times.

By the time that this year is over, the New York police will exceed their 685,724 stop-and-gropes for 2011.
http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Original post)

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 05:53 PM

21. How will this stop crime?

What a efn moron for a mayor.

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