Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

PCIntern

(25,704 posts)
Sun May 12, 2024, 10:59 AM May 12

In re: Hannibal Lecter

In the pantheon of fictional sociopaths, Thomas Harris achieved the pinnacle of same with his remarkable character of Lecter. Gifted beyond comprehension, educated and well-read in classical and modern literature, history, and current events, medically trained, aware of the vagaries and distinctions between classes and castes, and horrifyingly charismatic, he is the ultimate formidable villain .

I am virtually certain that Trump never read the series of books, but he probably saw at least one of the films, and remarked to himself, and probably anyone else who would listen, that the persona of Lecter, the gestalt, would be the highest achievement of any individual. For Trump, Lecter is equivalent in his sphere of Jesus or Gandhi in a normal person’s mind.

One of the aspects of the series is that Lecter was in fact apprehended, stood trial, and was sentenced to a psychiatric institution from which he managed to brilliantly engineer an escape and continue his behaviors elsewhere, defeating in the most horrifying manners all who came to destroy him. He has been stated by many to be the most villainous individual in cinematic history.

This entire oeuvre appeals to Trump who believes that as a “stable genius” on trial for a crime he knows he committed and for his personal knowledge of the existence of crimes and deeds of which the general public knows nothing, he is capable of equaling the notoriety of this psychopath and has drawn many parallels between himself and Lecter. The difference between them of course is that Lecter was a character created to possess an extraordinary intellect whereas Trump simply believes that he is incredibly brilliant, manipulative, and shrewd, the truth being quite to the contrary.

Finally, Trump’s quotation “the late, great, Hannibal Lecter” implies that the character exists as a real individual within Trump’s maladaptive psyche. And you know what they say: neurotics build glass houses and psychotics live in them.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
In re: Hannibal Lecter (Original Post) PCIntern May 12 OP
And Trump will only get worse. Turbineguy May 12 #1
Been a loooong time since I read the books. Arthur_Frain May 12 #2
You would be correct I believe PCIntern May 12 #3
I'm sure he was offed in some fan fiction Arthur_Frain May 12 #4
Professor Moriarty was the trope 100 years ago Ponietz May 12 #6
For the "birth" of Moriarty, see PCIntern May 12 #8
Yes, he and Clarice live in Argentina at the conclusion of the second book Aviation Pro May 12 #15
That book was horrible MorbidButterflyTat May 12 #29
I'd love to see Trump wheeled out on a dolly wearing a Lecter mask and straitjacket at the RNC. sop May 12 #5
I'd pay real money to see that. TSExile May 12 #23
Well, I would certainly tell Trump to "eat me." Chainfire May 12 #7
"Have the lambs stopped screaming, Clarice?" Glorfindel May 12 #9
This is pedantic, I know, but the title never made sense to me in the movie. Cuthbert Allgood May 12 #28
You're absolutely right. Glorfindel May 13 #30
Excellent essay...thank you for the insight....nt MiHale May 12 #10
Silence of the scams Zambero May 12 #11
A Lecter wannabe... hay rick May 12 #12
Thank you for that clear, and VERY disturbing, explanation. Having niyad May 12 #13
I heard the neurotics quote this way: nuxvomica May 12 #14
Lecter would eat his kidneys with some fava beans PCIntern May 12 #16
'how do you like children' et tu May 12 #17
*rump's dog whistle for racism Uncle Joe May 12 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author NanaCat May 12 #24
While they have cannibalism in common NanaCat May 12 #25
All it takes is one major commonality if it's an extraordinary, or unique situation. Uncle Joe May 12 #26
I have said since the beginning Trump likes murder porn. mercuryblues May 12 #19
ketchup on the fava beans DoBW May 12 #20
I stopped watching the Netflix series half way through. . . Collimator May 12 #21
I certainly wasn't suggesting that he was capable PCIntern May 12 #22
trump see's himself as any one of his favorite movie villians. Think. Again. May 12 #27

Arthur_Frain

(1,873 posts)
2. Been a loooong time since I read the books.
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:07 AM
May 12

But I don’t remember Lecter ever died? Didn’t he slip away like an eel always at the very end because he’s too smart for everyone?

So that would make “ Late” Hannibal Lector yet another inaccuracy, unless I’m wrong, which at least I admit as a possibility. The beauty of a fictional character is they do live on forever in our heads. Or at least in tfg’s.

PCIntern

(25,704 posts)
3. You would be correct I believe
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:14 AM
May 12

I hesitated to include that because there have been so many iterations of the character that I could have easily missed his “end”.

Arthur_Frain

(1,873 posts)
4. I'm sure he was offed in some fan fiction
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:19 AM
May 12

But Harris was pro enough to know which side his bread was buttered on even before Hopkins made the role iconic, and always left him available for a curtain call. Smart author.

Ponietz

(3,101 posts)
6. Professor Moriarty was the trope 100 years ago
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:34 AM
May 12

but wasn’t a cannibal since the Victorian age wouldn’t permit it. Batman villains also resurrect ad infinitum.

Aviation Pro

(12,280 posts)
15. Yes, he and Clarice live in Argentina at the conclusion of the second book
Sun May 12, 2024, 12:40 PM
May 12

The wise Barney, prompted by Lecter happened to be touring Vermeer's at the same time and the latter encountered the former at an opera while visiting the country's art museums.

Barney was wise because he beat a hasty retreat after Hannibal spotted him.

MorbidButterflyTat

(1,912 posts)
29. That book was horrible
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:17 PM
May 12

Years ago, I heard a rumor on an internet message board that Thomas Harris sold the rights to his characters before Jonathan Demme made "Silence of the Lambs," into a multiple Oscar winning dynamo. He (supposedly) had first crack at subsequent books and (supposedly) deliberately ruined the story. I tend to believe it, because the subsequent books stunk.

In "Hannibal," Lecter drugged Clarice and kept her drugged, even bringing her a skull and claiming it was her beloved deceased father's. He had it "talk" to her. Mason Verger was a pedophile who recorded orphan children brought to his mansion being made to cry and "collected" their tears; he had a body builder sister who ended up in the shower with Barney in another gross scene; the whole thing was just ICK.

Yes, Lecter kept Clarice drugged, they became "lovers," and he took her to the opera in Europe or whatever. The garbage that was "Hannibal" is why Jodie Foster passed on doing the movie. So did Jonathan Demme. Julianne Moore tried too hard IMO, and in no way was Clarice.

"Silence of the Lambs," was awesome, both the book and the movie; the movie "Red Dragon" was okay, although "Manhunter," based on "Red Dragon," with William Peterson was far better, but was made before "SOTL," and doomed to irrelevancy with a lame Lecter, unfortunately. The way Peterson's Will Graham slammed the slimy tabloid jerk onto the hood of a car was so much better than Edward Norton's wimpy lame push against Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Thus ends my lengthy lecture.

sop

(10,377 posts)
5. I'd love to see Trump wheeled out on a dolly wearing a Lecter mask and straitjacket at the RNC.
Sun May 12, 2024, 11:26 AM
May 12

That would be the only reason I'd watch the Republican convention.

Cuthbert Allgood

(5,018 posts)
28. This is pedantic, I know, but the title never made sense to me in the movie.
Sun May 12, 2024, 08:17 PM
May 12

In the book, Clarice is shocked how the lambs make no noise during slaughter. The horses(?) wake her up because they are screaming at the slaughter, but the lambs do nothing. Much like most of the victims.

niyad

(114,214 posts)
13. Thank you for that clear, and VERY disturbing, explanation. Having
Sun May 12, 2024, 12:38 PM
May 12

neither read the book (s?), nor seen the movie, I thought he was off on one of his incoherent, pointless mutterings. Your explanation makes it even more disturbing.

nuxvomica

(12,499 posts)
14. I heard the neurotics quote this way:
Sun May 12, 2024, 12:39 PM
May 12

Neurotics build castles in the air.
Psychotics live in them.
Psychiatrists collect the rent.

And I don't recall Lecter dying in any of the films, so the "late, great" statement doesn't make sense. But quibbling about that detail is like arguing whether the angels that dance on the head of a pin have dimples. TFG may consider him a role-model (yeesh!) but from what I know about the Lecter character, I don't think he would suffer TFG's boorish presence for very long.

et tu

(1,027 posts)
17. 'how do you like children'
Sun May 12, 2024, 12:53 PM
May 12

the quip, replace children with d45-
answer: boiled of course [or second course, or whatever] lol

Uncle Joe

(58,677 posts)
18. *rump's dog whistle for racism
Sun May 12, 2024, 01:12 PM
May 12

Last edited Sun May 12, 2024, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

The real life character that Hannibal Lecter could most be compared to would be Jeffrey Dahmer and his victims were primarily black.

*rump is one sick, evil piece of excrement.

Thanks for the thread PCIntern

Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

NanaCat

(1,771 posts)
25. While they have cannibalism in common
Sun May 12, 2024, 07:55 PM
May 12

That's not unique to Dahmer, and Dahmer's victim choices also have zilch to do with Lecter, who doesn't exhibit racist tendencies in the series.

So, no, it's not a matter of racism, and it's extreme overreach to associate Lecter with it in this case. He has plenty of awful traits that do overlap TSFs, but not this one.

Uncle Joe

(58,677 posts)
26. All it takes is one major commonality if it's an extraordinary, or unique situation.
Sun May 12, 2024, 08:13 PM
May 12

Last edited Sun May 12, 2024, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Cannibalism is not in the least bit common in the U.S. and the best known real life cannibal today in modern America is Jeffrey Dahmer.

One thing is for certain Hannibal Lector had a hell of lot more in common with Jeffrey Dahmer than he did with the tragic 19th century Donner Party.

Lector and Dahmer turned to cannibalism by choice, and that is the key to *rump's subliminal, dehumanizing message to his not so bright followers.





mercuryblues

(14,578 posts)
19. I have said since the beginning Trump likes murder porn.
Sun May 12, 2024, 01:17 PM
May 12

The only time he shows any emotion is when he is talking about violence, torture, and/or murder. Which is why I would not be surprised if he killed a girl while raping her. THAT is what I believe is what is being held over his head, by Putin and why Jeffery Epstein mysteriously "committed suicide" in prison.

Collimator

(1,640 posts)
21. I stopped watching the Netflix series half way through. . .
Sun May 12, 2024, 01:40 PM
May 12

. . And not because I was creeped out by the story or the character. My ability to suspend disbelief was stretched past its limits.

I agree with the assessment that Lechter is "gifted beyong comprehension" but nobody has the time-management skills to be able accomplish everything that Lechter did within the timeframe allotted. Also, he kept throwing suspcion on other characters, and the FBI agents would frown at the new suspect and assume guilt while collecting forensic evidence, (which Lechter could plant) when some basic police work would have cleared the suspect by establishing his whereabouts within the proper timeline.

I had that same problem with the second "Da Vinci Code" movie, "Angels & Demons". There were certain events that coalesced in the big moments of the movie that neither the villian nor any other mortal being could have controlled. Yes, one sets aside incredulity for the sake of enjoying a story, but as I said before, there are limits.

There are also limits to Trump's luck and perverse influence as well. Every phenomenon carries within it the seeds of its own destruction.

Most importantly, remember that Trump has a shitty work ethic. Hannibal Lechter had a successful psychiatric practice, consulted for the FBI, was socially active within his local fine arts scene, committed horrible crimes finished off with elaborate presentations (while leaving behind no forensic evidence) maintained a lovely home and threw fabulous dinner parties for which he selected and prepared the menus all by himself.

Trump could never accomplish all that, even with Melania's help.

Think. Again.

(9,163 posts)
27. trump see's himself as any one of his favorite movie villians.
Sun May 12, 2024, 08:17 PM
May 12

It's an ego thing. He knows he will never be appreciated as a good man, so he glorifies himself in the villian role.

Kick in to the DU tip jar?

This week we're running a special pop-up mini fund drive. From Monday through Friday we're going ad-free for all registered members, and we're asking you to kick in to the DU tip jar to support the site and keep us financially healthy.

As a bonus, making a contribution will allow you to leave kudos for another DU member, and at the end of the week we'll recognize the DUers who you think make this community great.

Tell me more...

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»In re: Hannibal Lecter